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  #1  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:14 AM
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Toyota rears up front

Typically when someone does a SAS on a toyota, they drill the frame for the back of the spring mounting point. Why is this? Why not just make a spring mount on the bottom of the frame? seems super simple, but no one does it?
what am I missing here?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:03 AM
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Mounting a spring hanger below the frame would move the rear hanger position down, which in turn would change the pinion angle (pointing it down towards the ground), causing driveline binding & vibration issues.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:42 AM
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I don't suppose anyone has any frame tube jigs they don't want anymore?
$20 for TG's jigs is a little nuts I think.
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2009, 11:49 AM
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$20 isn't that bad for ANYTHING. Try a different hobby if $20 is too much for you to handle. I hear crochet is cheap. LOL!

J. J.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2009, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
$20 isn't that bad for ANYTHING. Try a different hobby if $20 is too much for you to handle. I hear crochet is cheap. LOL!

J. J.
lmao! I DO know how to crochet too!
I just KNOW someone has some layin around, since they are a one time use thing for most guys.

On a side note, I got a line on a FJ60 steering box. Thinking about using that instead of my IFS box. That would put the Pitman arm in front of the box instead of behind it.

Trying to find others who have done it so I can see pics to see how well it would work.

This is my 4th rig build, so Im pretty confident in what I'm doing. I just like trying things differently when I can, and since I have more time than money, I'd rather fab stuff than buy it.
or beg/borrow stupid stuff like the jigs..
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2009, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by idahoaj1 View Post
SNIP 4 BANDWIDTH<
I'd rather fab stuff than buy it. or beg/borrow stupid stuff like the jigs..
So you can figure it out make your own jigs after materials you can buy a with the balance.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
On a side note, I got a line on a FJ60 steering box. Thinking about using that instead of my IFS box. That would put the Pitman arm in front of the box instead of behind it.

Trying to find others who have done it so I can see pics to see how well it would work.

I have more time than money, I'd rather fab stuff than buy it.
or beg/borrow stupid stuff like the jigs..
A couple of things to consider with this, first off your 60 series box isn't a bright idea becouse it will put the pitman arm under the chassi where your tierod is going to come up when using high steer arms.... that is the bonus with using the ifs box it is forward of any of the axle bits so you can let the axle come right up

Now for the catch depending on the vintage of your rear springs you are planing on using (more modern the springs, the more centered the spring pin is) this can mean if you are using old springs you will move your axle forward enough that can push your steering box forward enough you have to cut into the body mount

As far as the shackle mount being under the chassi or drilled into the chassi I have done both and seen both here.... don't get to stressed about it or your spring angle correct it with caster wedges if you need to
The basic deal is the higher you mount it the lower your CoG, my suggestion is look at the bump in your frame, I've done an Izuzu Mu that had an almost flat rise in the chassi for the axle so there was nothing to be gained by drilling the shackle mounts so I just welded them to the bottom.... I have done another one that the shackle mount was drilled into the top edge of the chassi and I cut a clearance in the chassi to let the shackle and spring come right up in so the spring was almost flat along the chassi

Cheers Reece
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Old 12-06-2009, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by De Ranged View Post
A couple of things to consider with this, first off your 60 series box isn't a bright idea becouse it will put the pitman arm under the chassi where your tierod is going to come up when using high steer arms.... that is the bonus with using the ifs box it is forward of any of the axle bits so you can let the axle come right up

Now for the catch depending on the vintage of your rear springs you are planing on using (more modern the springs, the more centered the spring pin is) this can mean if you are using old springs you will move your axle forward enough that can push your steering box forward enough you have to cut into the body mount
Not sure Im understanding what you are saying about "it will put the pitman arm under the chassi where your tierod is going to come up when using high steer arms"
Because by using a FJ60 box, where the arm is in front of the box, rather than behind it, it eliminates me having to "push your steering box forward enough you have to cut into the body mount"
Unless there is something I'm not seeing right, using the 60 series box basically gives the same benefit, Putting the pitman arm in the same spot without having to cut into the body mount. I plan on moving the axle as far forward as I can with the springs and front spring hanger.
IS there something I'm not seeing right??
Quote:
Originally Posted by De Ranged View Post
As far as the shackle mount being under the chassi or drilled into the chassi I have done both and seen both here.... don't get to stressed about it or your spring angle correct it with caster wedges if you need to
I thought about doing that as well.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:17 PM
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Here ya go a pic since I'm no good at explaining things

ignore the fact its on the wrong side... we drive on the other side of the road
notice how the tie-rod (yellow bar) comes up level with the pitman arm (black arm infront of it)

for the books this is a rear up front conversion on a solid axle chassi (higher bump for the axle) with a +110mm drop box up front, +75mm shackles in the original mounts now look at how close the tie-rod comes to the chassi

I have seen a sixty series box used on an Izuzu Bighorn conversion but the guy also went with a spring under set of springs off a 75 series this gave him the space to swing the pitman arm and draglink up front, you may be able to fit it with a drop box spring mounts and rears hmmmm can't think were that would leave it sitting using the standard steering shaft.... my addvice don't buy the box till you have the axle mounted and tierod on so you can see if it fits first
I remember looking at this option for a client who I did a SAS for and in the end he sold me the box becouse we couldn't fit it

Cheers Reece

Last edited by De Ranged; 12-06-2009 at 07:39 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2009, 08:46 PM
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well, the box is $60 is all, and worst case scenario, I know I could sell it for double that.
I think I see what you are saying with the pics you posted.
I'm not positive yet, but I 'believe' that my bumpstop will stop the springs from going that flat. those are almost in the negative in that pic. Plus if he had shocks on, the tire would be hitting the shock body in that pic as well.
I will get the box, and once I get the axle in place, I'll see what my options are from there.
Thanks for the pic Reece and the explanation.
I guess we'll just have to see how it fits at that point.
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:25 PM
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I SAS'd a 4Runner last year with an FJ60 box and it worked great, don't be discouraged. I placed the hanger way forward of a typical SAS and used rear springs up front (RUF). Because of this, the axle center line was about 4" forward of a typical SAS. I mocked up an IFS box but it wasn't going to work. With the FJ60 box, it worked great. I drilled and sleeved the frame in two spots for the lower bolts then welded two sleeves on top of the frame rail for the top two bolts. I swapped a flat pitman arm into the box and shortened the steering shaft. I set the bump stops up so the springs went flat and they still didn't come in contact with the sector shaft nut. It all jived together great and the owner wheels the truck pretty hard w/o hyrdo assist.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:30 PM
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you got any pics?!?!?!?!
thats pretty much what I was wanting to do. But would LOVE some pics of the box and axle location n such to help me jigger it together better in my head so I can lay out a plan on paper.

If no pics, can you give me the owners contact info so I can see if he will get some for me?
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:22 PM
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You have to move the steering box forward with rears up front because it moves the axle forward and if you don't more the steering box the tie rod and drag link will bind
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:21 PM
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if you dont want to drill the frame and buy brackets make sliders like on a dirt track car saves money on bushings shackles and you can buy several beers
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2009, 12:24 PM
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email me @ astatland@gmail.com and I will respond with pictures of the 4Runner with the FJ60 steering box.
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  #16  
Old 12-09-2009, 05:37 PM
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email sent! let me know if you need any more info or pics.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idahoaj1 View Post
well, the box is $60 is all, and worst case scenario, I know I could sell it for double that.
Go get it and double your money. With the proceeds you can purchace the frame jig for your spring hanger...

Sorry could resist...
I would stay with the IFS box. What he is saying above is your pitman arm could contact the Tie rod on up travel
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2009, 08:04 PM
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wouldn't that be true with the IFS box too?
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2009, 09:41 PM
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Yes and that's what's sweet about the 60 box. The pitman arms swings forward, giving you more room to push the drag link forward, to clear the tie rod.
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2009, 11:06 PM
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Yes and that's what's sweet about the 60 box. The pitman arms swings forward, giving you more room to push the drag link forward, to clear the tie rod.
AH NO... Your drag link attached to the Pitman arm goes to the front Hole on the pass side Hi steer arm. So it is in front of the tie rod with IFS Box. WIth the 60 Box the pitman would be over the Tie rod in order for the drag link to go to the front hole.
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