Go Back OFN Forums > Shop and Tool Talk > Benders and Bending

Benders and Bending Which bender is best? How do you use a bender? How do you calculate bends? Everything Bender related...


Benders and Bending Which bender is best? How do you use a bender? How do you calculate bends? Everything Bender related...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 12-06-2014, 01:09 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Slow Holiday progress = Angry wife!!

Well ive made some slow progress on this project... And this was tough!! i kinda felt like i was sneaking into the garage any chance i had! Running scared from my Angry wife!!

I was able to finish my little bench grinder mount and cut a strange bracket out for the power steering pump..My daughter said it looks like one of our cats... so she named that bracket Bazack! The angry cat we feed



Then with the help of many hands lol and a steel bushing from a jeep transfercase drop kit along with a fuel pump push rod from an old sbc we had lol i set this up for the belt tensioner... ill weld a piece of pipe in the middle of the bushings to keep the pump straight in the bracket...



Has alot of swing... I think im going to use a scissor jack rod as to tighten the pump.... I also need to make sure the motor is going to spin the right way before i finish weld the pump bracket base... If i remember right the electric motor facing it spins left.... sbc powersteering pump facing it spins to the right.... So i hope im on the right track here...



Well thats as far as my holiday run and fab has gone! The splitter valve showed up yesterday... Still waiting on the Cylinder...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20141203_182840_689.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	8081   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20141204_184251_341.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	48.3 KB
ID:	8082   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20141204_184306_770.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	54.0 KB
ID:	8083  


Last edited by Fattcat69; 12-08-2014 at 09:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 12-06-2014, 10:43 PM
Captainfab's Avatar
Captainfab Captainfab is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Posts: 2,725
Most of your pics aren't showing up for me. Can anyone else see them?
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12-06-2014, 11:19 PM
bullnerd's Avatar
bullnerd bullnerd is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jersey
Posts: 705
No Sir
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 12-07-2014, 12:08 AM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,268
Don't work for me either. They're like the emperor's new clothes.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 12-07-2014, 06:20 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Ok Im lost.. lol

...Hmmm... Sorry about the pics... do i need to leave the thumbnails up after i post the pics? ill try one and see if this works... i deleted the attachments after i uploaded the pics...Hope that is my issue among all of my regular issues lmao
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 12-07-2014, 06:23 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Test pic.... can you see this one?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_324665351866841.jpg
Views:	244
Size:	23.0 KB
ID:	8079  
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 12-08-2014, 12:19 AM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,268
Yeah and it's badass!
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12-08-2014, 09:28 AM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Awesome!!

Right on Bandit.. yes thats something i found on facebook... Im not a big facebooker but there are some cool pics floating around on there from time to time.... O.K. so i must need to leave the pics in the manage attachments section.... lol im a dork...
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 12-08-2014, 09:53 AM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Fixed images...... I hope.....

Ok i think i got this! fixed previous images as well i believe......and my cyilinder showed up. My wife hid it from me until this morning. lmao she said it was a little heavy to put under the xmas tree..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20141206_191909_615.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	37.1 KB
ID:	8084  
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 12-08-2014, 11:22 AM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,268
What diameter is that cylinder? How do you plan to mount it? Perpendicular to the bender arm or roughly parallel?

Do you know what pressure this pump is going to put out?

It looks like you did get the photos fixed above. I see what looks like a grinder stand having a power steering pump and mounter mounted to it.Nice progress.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 12-08-2014, 02:13 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Good questions.... alot of not sure yet answers lol

Thanks bandit. The cylinder is 3" bore 24" stroke very similar to the one on this forum.. 2500 to 3850 psi.. I also bought a splitter valve 18gpm with adustable relief valve 2250 to 3500 psi... The cylinder has 1/2" I/o ports and the work ports on the valve are 1/2" as well.. The I/o ports on the splitter are 3/4".

I am not sure on the pressure the pump will provide.. I have not found alot of info on the pressure just the flow.. So i guess that will be something to check on. I see from some previous posts the flow should be 3 gpm to 6 possible. I can also drill the pressure side hole out a touch for a little more flow if needed..

And if all fails i will pony up some cash and just install a hydraulic motor and non vane pump and see if that does the job..

As far as mounting the cylinder i am going to try and follow the set up i built with the HF air cylinder. except this cylinder will end up pinned at the rear of the stand..


So exactly the center of the square stock on the back of the stand to the bender mount is 34.25.. I dont know what that angle is yet.. However i will post my options when i start on the bender stand... That being said im going to do the cylinder replacement last... The bender works with the HF ram so ill wait until the motor pump and tank are set up..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20141115_222307_461.jpg
Views:	230
Size:	45.4 KB
ID:	8086  
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12-08-2014, 02:53 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,268
Pressure & piston size will affect the maximum force produced by the cylinder while angle and location of the cylinder will affect how effectively that force translates into a torque. For a given power, the "gearing" of the system will affect the trade-off between speed and torque. In this case the "gearing" are all the points at which the power changes speed: the motor speed, the pulley ratio, the pump flow rate, the piston size, and the mechanical arrangement of the cylinder. The question is if your system "gearing" will produce sufficient torque to bend the tube and if it will respect the limits of the motor, pump, and mechanics. I suspect since you have a reasonably effective working angle on the cylinder, the 3" cylinder and power steering pump will be in the right neighborhood, but I'll be interested to see how it works out.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12-08-2014, 03:46 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Very well said!

I concur sir Bandit.. I wish i knew what this pump pressure produced with the motor speed of 3450... How can i break this down...

The angle of the ram is going to be close with the length though it will be more horizontal than the HF setup.. I will put my deg on it and get an idea..

Im very curious to see how it works as well.. Just because i have 5 spare ps pumps lol so if this works i have a feeling my buddy is going to follow as well..
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 12-08-2014, 04:51 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,268
I think with a little bit of research on these pumps I can figure out if this is going to work. Do you have the following info?
Motor horsepower
Pulley ratio
Model of pump
I can guestimate the angle of the cylinder. Most likely at that RPM the pump will be against it's internal bypass which from what I can find could be anywhere from 1,000-1,600psi.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 12-08-2014, 05:14 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
That would be very cool!

I get 4 motor turns for 1 turn on the pump. the motor is a 3450 rpm 3 hp 230 volt. The power steering pump is off of a 1976 chevy truck. The only # i can find on this pump is 354324 A B GM

I also have room to run 2 pumps if that would increase the psi needed for the cylinder to work correctly..
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 12-08-2014, 05:48 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Is this a 605 gm pump i wonder? i am seeing peeps rating there psi from 600 to 1200 psi but no rpm notes?? so mabie its at idle? 800 to 1000??rpm
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 12-08-2014, 05:54 PM
bullnerd's Avatar
bullnerd bullnerd is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jersey
Posts: 705
My neighbor has been using his power steering pump driven hossfeld for well over 25 yrs on the same pump. I do remember him saying he used the gm truck pump because you can swap the pulley easily, but don't know if he actually did. He used to sell a kit many moons ago, but hes not into it any more. He put a relay on the valve, and used a remote pendant, pretty sweet, because you can walk around the bender and still have the pendant in your hand.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:42 PM
Fattcat69's Avatar
Fattcat69 Fattcat69 is offline
Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Washington state
Posts: 54
Nice

Bullnerd i remember reading that earlier in this post... That was alot of my drive to finish this set up. I wish i could have met that guy! Old timers had some cool ideas back in the day.. I actually almost purchased a Hossfield #1 i believe before i bought the protools set up..
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:08 PM
bullnerd's Avatar
bullnerd bullnerd is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jersey
Posts: 705
Yeah, I wish I got some pics of it. He just sold it to East coast superchargers...which is right down the street, so I might be able to get some yet.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 12-09-2014, 12:31 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,268
I'd assume they are rated at idle since that's when power steering work is needed. Your 4:1 drive setup will result in a pump speed of 862rpm. I don't know what the typical power steering ratio is, but it seems like they are close to 1:1 so let's just assume it's close and your motor/pump system can put out 1,200psi. If so your 3" cylinder will generate up to 8,482lb. Assuming a working angle of around 45 degrees and bender arm around 18" long, you should be able to generate around 9,000ft-lb of torque which is plenty to bend at the capacity of that bender. For reference, I designed my bender for 5,000ft-lb of torque max intended to bend up to 2"x.120 and IIRC I measured about 3,600ft-lb to bend 1.75"x.120 chromoly.

What I don't know is the flow rate of the pump and if you would be respecting the power limits of the motor. If the flow rate is too high you'll be bypassing a lot of flow and that still requires power.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS
Copyright 2012, Offroad Fabrication Network