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Benders and Bending Which bender is best? How do you use a bender? How do you calculate bends? Everything Bender related...


Benders and Bending Which bender is best? How do you use a bender? How do you calculate bends? Everything Bender related...

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  #1  
Old 04-30-2015, 01:53 AM
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Upgrades for a JD2 model 32

I've just bought a JD2 model 32 worth 2" x 6.5 CLR die and im thinking of putting a hydraulic upgrade on it to make it more useable so that I don't have to bolt it down mainly ( I don't have the room to bolt it down), I was thinking of making a "A" frame shaped trolly to mount it on with wheels, I'm happy with how I'm wanting to do the hydraulics as I've read other threads on that design, I'd just like to hear people's thoughts on the trolly/frame side of the build I was thinking maybe 600mm wide by 750mm long and say 700mm high( to the top of the bender) with the bender on one end and the hydraulic pump/tank on the other to add ballast

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Adam
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:52 AM
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I mounted my 32 on a stand that looked like a metal saw horse. It has rollers on it, plus 3 jack bolts. I roll it to where I am going to use it, then screw the jack bolt down to level the bender. Then bend away.

Steve
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2015, 02:11 PM
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That sounds like the sort of thing I want the wind down jack bolts sound like a good idea and definitely something I will do to mine when I make the frame
Thank you for your input
Adam
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Old 05-31-2015, 05:47 AM
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A company called SWAG Off-road makes a bracket to mount a harbor freight air over hydraulic ram to your model 32. The bracket is like $175 and the ram is $80 I think, but there are always coupons for harbor freight so that could be cheaper.
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2015, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenwings_85 View Post
A company called SWAG Off-road makes a bracket to mount a harbor freight air over hydraulic ram to your model 32. The bracket is like $175 and the ram is $80 I think, but there are always coupons for harbor freight so that could be cheaper.
Has anyone on here done this but fitted it onto a engine stand to make the bender work in both horizontal and vertical plains?
Adam
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2015, 07:59 PM
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Here is my M3 on an engine stand with homemade jack mount. I wanted to make it horiz/vert but wanted it done and didnt plan the twist part correctly, worked great as horiz.


Here is another good thread
http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/...r+stand&page=2
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2015, 01:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I've just looked at your link and also Arts from that link and I've changed my mind completely on how I'm going to build my bender stand, thinking about it changing from horizontal to vertical wouldn't work as the tube would be to high in the air to start with, I'm probably going to make something like yours/ arts as it would be smaller and more stable than what I initially thought of.
Thanks again as I've just read some great info now to sort out the rest of my parts I've got a hydraulic pump already, how much can you bend in 1 go? I'd like to achieve 90 degrees
Regards
Adam
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  #8  
Old 06-03-2015, 03:11 AM
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What are the pro's and cons of mounting the hydraulic ram as pictured above?
Cheers
Adam
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2015, 03:29 PM
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The main advantage is that the ram remains approximately perpendicular to the bender arms, maximizing leverage and thereby reducing the forces on the ram and pivot points of the bender. No real cons that I'm aware of as long as the ram has sufficient stroke to hit a 90 degree bend and doesn't have such a larger piston diameter that it takes forever to get there.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:14 PM
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The pump I've got is 5.5cc I think which is rated at 55bar I'm not to worried about bend speed so long as it's not to quick that is nolonger accurate.
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Old 06-03-2015, 07:23 PM
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Old 06-03-2015, 07:42 PM
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Just recently put my hydro together,mostly from bits I had,ram is from a front loader,diameter is boarder line but works good on all but 1.9" where I don't have enough force to get full stroke,just means repining
My hinge point works good except it's a little hard to manage weight wise with bender assembled so I'll figure out an upgrade for that also but so far it's not really been a problem...motor is from an old water pump,cut the end off the pump part and spun it flat then made a coupling plate for a group 2 4 ccm pump,originally went for 6 ccm but motor was not able for it,it's a big motor but 2850 rpm bumped the flow rate and sucked up power,spoil is just a cheap double manual,second outlet for press etc...even with making tank,coupler and table and having the motor,castors and most of the pipe it still cost quite a bit for couplers and pipe ends etc but has transformed my bender and bending,I had got to the stage where I dreaded swinging out of that handle
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Old 06-03-2015, 07:48 PM
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:12 AM
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That looks very good Vortec. Do you find that you use it in the vertical position much or mainly horizontal? I've been following the math put up on another post and was also wondering what force is requiredto bend 6mm wall 50mm tube? There are quotes of around 4-5000 ft lb to Bend 3mm wall pipe, I don't intend to bend 6mm wall past aprox 15-20 but would be able to bend it is the bender is meant to be able to do so
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:45 AM
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This is one of my favorite setups. Seems easy to makehttp://www.edwardsironworkers.com/10T_tubePipeBender.html.

With my hydro setup (not the one pictured) 1.75x.25 dom takes 1700 5psi to bend
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gardiner View Post
That looks very good Vortec. Do you find that you use it in the vertical position much or mainly horizontal? I've been following the math put up on another post and was also wondering what force is requiredto bend 6mm wall 50mm tube? There are quotes of around 4-5000 ft lb to Bend 3mm wall pipe, I don't intend to bend 6mm wall past aprox 15-20 but would be able to bend it is the bender is meant to be able to do so
When I originally built my bender, I measured hydraulic pressures and calculated the torque to bend 1-3/4 x .120 DOM and 4130 tubing on a 6" CLR die to be 3,400ft-lb and 3,900ft-lb respectively. keep in mind this is based on very small sample size - just a few bends from the same batch of tubing.

The torque to bend different sizes of tube should scale approximately based on the section modulus, although it likely will be affected some by CLR and the mechanics of the bender. Anyway, to get a rough estimate, I've taken my results and scaled them based on different tube sizes including 2"x.120 and 50mm x 6mm (1.968"x.236). The results are shown below. It will take a lot of torque to bend what you want to bend - somewhere in the ballpark of 7,200ft-lb for mild steel.

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Last edited by TheBandit; 06-04-2015 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokcrler View Post
This is one of my favorite setups. Seems easy to makehttp://www.edwardsironworkers.com/10T_tubePipeBender.html.
I'm also a fan of how the iron worker bender rotates for vertical bending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokcrler View Post
With my hydro setup (not the one pictured) 1.75x.25 dom takes 1700 5psi to bend
Is that 1700psi? What is the diameter of the cylinder and approximate distance from the ram to the center pivot? From that I can calculate torque and see if it scales about the way I would think it would.
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Old 06-04-2015, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
The main advantage is that the ram remains approximately perpendicular to the bender arms, maximizing leverage and thereby reducing the forces on the ram and pivot points of the bender. No real cons that I'm aware of as long as the ram has sufficient stroke to hit a 90 degree bend and doesn't have such a larger piston diameter that it takes forever to get there.
These don't do 90 degrees in one shot.

EDIT: The HF air/hydro adaptations for JD2 products are what i'm talking about.
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Old 06-04-2015, 12:27 PM
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Thanks for the replys I will try and run the figures again with the values that you've wrote down and see how that pans out with the setup that I'm running I've got a few rough calculations so far with my pump speeds and I should achieve a 600mm stroke in 34 seconds at 55bar (maximum value) for my pump. I'll be running a 80mm or approx 3.2" diameter ram. I've just to work out the length of ram needed and if the values I've calculated are correct as I've not measured the model 32 pivot point distances etc just gone off some figures found on here.
Thanks for the replys
Adam
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2015, 01:39 PM
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If you need more torque or are up against the power limits of your motor, you can mount the ram further from the center pivot. The tradeoff will be bending speed and maximum bend angle for a single stroke. Given there is such a big difference between 50mmx6mm and more typical tube sizes, you might consider designing in more than one mounting position for the ram. That would allow you to move it further out to increase leverage for high capacity tube or move it in to keep speeds/stroke up for more typical sizes.
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Last edited by TheBandit; 06-04-2015 at 04:52 PM.
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