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Welders and Welding Which welder is best and the best way's to use them.


Welders and Welding Which welder is best and the best way's to use them.

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  #1  
Old 11-30-2014, 06:45 PM
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30a circuit for Miller 180 MIG

I have a 30 amp 220v circuit running to the garage for a pool pump. My Millermatic 180 is marked 21.7 amp so I think this would be sufficient to weld at the rated capacity, but thought I should ask to be sure. I'm pretty sure I put in a 50 or maybe higher rated circuit at my last place based on the connector and matching receptacle which were rated well above 30.

Thanks for any thoughts, advice or experience.
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:11 PM
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It all depends on the rating of the circuit breaker, in the uk we have different types of circuit breakers. I would use a C or D type mcb for a welder rather than the domestic B type.
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:35 PM
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How do they differ?
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:53 PM
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Clint,

I would say that unless you are running it off of an extension cord you should be fine. That 21.7amp should be the peak current draw and therefore stay below your breaker limit. I would not install a larger breaker without, at the least, checking the wire size for that circuit. Better would be to install a new circuit in the garage that is dedicated for your welders and has a 40-50 amp breaker and the appropriate size wire.

I do think you will be fine running it off the 30amp service though.
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:03 AM
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They would all be rated at the same current. But differ on the inrush current, a B type mcb would not take much inrush current where as a C or D type would take more as they are designed to be used with a motor or transformer etc. I've got a butters 180A mig running off a 20A D type mcb
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:36 PM
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Thanks Adam. I thought that was likely the case, but have never learned enough about residential wiring to know.

I very much appreciate the input.

It sounds like it is at least worth a try. I just hope the voltage drop isn't too bad. This circuit has a very long run from the panel to the garage. Not having to run new wiring will save a boat load of time and money if it works out.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:12 PM
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Only thing you have to be careful off is the earth loop impedance value. This ensures that the mcb will trip within the desired characteristics. I can get you the UK values but not sure on your wiring regulations.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:20 PM
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Is that a concern for safety or a concern for nuisance trips?
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:28 PM
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Dealing with this at the moment, rule of thumb.
Breaker size: total load = 80% of the breaker.
Wire gauge if the run is over 15-feet, one common step higher.

E
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:45 PM
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A 30amp circuit should be running 10 gauge wire. That is what a electric dryer circuit is. Usually 10 gauge-3 conductor( black/red white) with a bare ground. The red and black are the hots and go to the breaker while the white goes to the same place the bare wire goes (ground buss bar) unless the circuit panel has a separate neutral buss bar them the white would go there. Jim
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:07 PM
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It's a safety issue yes, to achieve the desired tripping time I.e. It has to trip out in 0.4s. May be worth speaking to an electrician local to you who could advise/test the wiring to check if the rating of the mcb could be changed. Generally here in the UK we would use a 6mm cable but depends on the length the longer the run the bigger the cable has to be to keep the earth loop impedance down.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:12 PM
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I don't plan on changing out the breaker and I am pretty sure both the breaker and wiring are original to the house. So assuming the breaker and wiring to the garage are to code, shouldn't the breaker always protect the circuit before safety is affected? Or is it possible to hook something into the circuit that will cause a fire before the breaker throws?

I will check the wire sizes at the panel and garage this week and see what type of breaker is installed.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:44 PM
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Red face

Hello ;

Last time i looked the idea of a breaker was to trip to keep your garage or shop or kitchen depending just where one welds from needing to learn the response time of the fire company.

If your drawing 21.7 amps at max output of your welder a 30 amp breaker is more then enough. If your welding at the top of the output curve.

I am sure it states what size breaker to use in the owners manual .

Easy to down load if it has been misplaced or it got put in the bird cage.



The bigger the breaker the longer it takes to trip might not mean much but to high a breaker could be enough to catch something on fire.

My high end welders have fast blow fuses rated 10 amps lower then the breaker to keep damage in the hundreds instead of thousands of $$$ mounted at the welder.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:22 PM
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So long as everything is wired to the regulations and all readings fall within them then the circuits should be protected. If you don't plan on changing the mcb for a different type it should be alright, what is the current mcb rated at is there a letter B,C or D? Or sometimes if it's an older one it may be type 2 or 4. Again I'm quoting UK information as I'm not sure what your regs are.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2014, 07:25 PM
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The breaker should look something like this with a 30 stamped the handles. Jim
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