Go Back OFN Forums > Badland Buggy Group > Buggy Builds

Buggy Builds Badland Buggy Complete Builds


Buggy Builds Badland Buggy Complete Builds

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 10-20-2009, 04:33 PM
som ws9's Avatar
som ws9 som ws9 is offline
Junior Fabricator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hebron, KY
Posts: 20
Great looking build. I have several LS powered vehicles myself and love the platform. HP Tuners and EFI Live both have very capable and user friendly tuning software. I prefer the HP Tuners and would highly recommend it to anyone.

You definitely want to have it running in closed loop for best performance. The PCMs are very easy to tune and you can run them in a number of different ways.

They come from the factory with a Mass Flow system. This is a very easy system to tune and great for year-round driveability. The PCM uses primarily engine speed and the MAF (mass air flow) sensor to measure incoming airflow and also combines this with info from the IAT (intake air temp) sensor, MAP (manifold absolute pressure), and O2 sensors to calculate the fueling needs.

A Speed Density system (no MAF) is a great option for simplicity and power production. The PCM uses a combination of engine speed and information from the MAP, IAT, and O2s for it's fuel calculations.

You can also employ an Alpha N tuning strategy to run the engine. This is very basic and relies on engine speed, IAT, and O2s to determine fueling needs. It's not the most effective way to make power.

My personal preference for simplicity and power production is Speed Density. The LS engines LOVE speed density tuning. I would recommend saving yourself some money and learning to tune on your own. The software isn't cheap, but it will save you tons over time instead of having someone else do it for you. Just be sure to consult with a reputable tuner of LS engines before you start making changes. You wont learn overnight by any stretch of the imagination but once you get the basics down it's cake.

Keep the updates coming!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-20-2009, 09:31 PM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
Thanks for the info guys. As long as we're on the topic, I want to start out as simple as possible and get used to that first. I just don't trust myself to dive right into tuning on my own right away for several reasons. One is that once I get it done I want to wheel it and not tune it. Another is that I am so new to EFI that I need to take it slow. Finally, I have no one around me who does this stuff to help me. I live in a very automotive-unfriendly area. Thew few race guys that are here virtually all run carbs and we only have 3 parts stores in town. Hence, I'm goign to have to pioneer for my area.

That being said, MAF is probably the way to go I would imagine???

J. J.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:22 AM
som ws9's Avatar
som ws9 som ws9 is offline
Junior Fabricator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hebron, KY
Posts: 20
Since it's already set up that way from the factory, keeping the MAF would be the least involved way of getting it done right and the driveability will be great. It's not going to be finicky or throw fits, just fire right up and drive.

Realistically, for what you're doing you can have a mail order tune done to get it pretty close. It's much easier since you're using a TH400 so you wont have to do any transmission tuning.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:35 AM
feva4u's Avatar
feva4u feva4u is offline
Junior Fabricator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by som ws9 View Post
Since it's already set up that way from the factory, keeping the MAF would be the least involved way of getting it done right and the driveability will be great. It's not going to be finicky or throw fits, just fire right up and drive.

Realistically, for what you're doing you can have a mail order tune done to get it pretty close. It's much easier since you're using a TH400 so you wont have to do any transmission tuning.

X2. Once you get your tuner and get familiar it's good to do a VE(speed density) tune as a backup/dial in. The EFI will run off VE until the coolant hits a certain temp (generally speaking), then switches. The VE tune comes in handy if your maf fails or your coolant temp sensor fails(not showing proper engine temp). You're going to be able to unplug the maf and still drive out without it really driving that much different(well once your fuel trims adjust anyway lol). It's just a matter of getting your fuel trims correct for the application. You can get into all that stuff later, don't let it scare you, it's fairly simple in an NA application. Once you start adding N20, turbos, and superchargers it gets a little more complicated, not impossible by any means, just more added variables.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:55 AM
curtrnev's Avatar
curtrnev curtrnev is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 174
And not to mention the damage it can cause on a non n/a motor!
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-21-2009, 03:09 PM
som ws9's Avatar
som ws9 som ws9 is offline
Junior Fabricator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hebron, KY
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
Once you start adding N20, turbos, and superchargers it gets a little more complicated, not impossible by any means, just more added variables.
But boost is SOOOO much fun on these engines!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-21-2009, 04:11 PM
curtrnev's Avatar
curtrnev curtrnev is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 174
Oh Yeah
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-24-2009, 02:06 AM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
Got the rear suspension setup and all 4 tires on. I was tired and it was late so I didn't waste time setting it at ride height to take pics and shit. Ignore the weird-ass plate bolted to the top fo the rockwell ... its just something I was playing with as part of the 3-link that I was going to build but didn't. It's coming off, althought it did serve as a nice table to work on while building the 4-link!











I'm not nearly finished with the truss or any of the bracing for any of it yet. Now that I have both front and rear suspension laid out I am thinking of taking an inch or two out of the front since I have the space. I need to flex the rear out and do some steering to see if the tires are going to hit the back of the main frame at flex. If so I may add the inch or two to the rear that I take from the front.

Here's the numbers. I can't get a decent screen capture on this laptop with the tiny screen and touchpad so I got what I could:

Front:



Rear:


Oh, and just to prove that I can lay down a decent bead every now and then. :flipoff2:



I work pretty much the next week straight so there won't be much more progress for a while. I think I get a day off somewhere in there maybe ...

J. J.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:15 PM
dedmetal's Avatar
dedmetal dedmetal is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 318
She is looking great! I love that design you came up with for the upper mounts very Cool
When you set up your rear did you give it any caster angle or leave it -0-?

bob

Last edited by dedmetal; 10-25-2009 at 12:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:32 PM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
Just left it at zero. Its been so long since I had a stock rockwell in the shop that I don't even recall if the knuckles are flipped on that partiular axle. But in stock config a rockwell has about 2* of built in castor. When you trade sides they have zero. So I either have zero or 2*, not a big deal either way. Not that concerned about street performance if you know what I mean. :) Plus, I have my Stazworks automatic return to center steering coming for the rear.

J. J.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:33 PM
KEGGER1454's Avatar
KEGGER1454 KEGGER1454 is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 456
very envious of your fab skillz! great looking buggy!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:35 PM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
Shoot man. I ain't got no skillz! You should see some of the other builds that take place here. I ain't got shit on them! I'm just a llowly DIYer trying to keep up with he big boys. Its a losing battle really. I'm happy just improving upon myself with each build.

BTW ya'll, those are just temporary .120 wall links on there right now. I'm claiming that now because when I cut an inch or two out of the front and weld those cutouts onto the back I know folks are going to go crazy. :)

I'm also considering cutting a bunch of side tubes out and doing some rolls for them. Mainly because I think I'm going to have to redo the rear quarter due to tire scrub on the sides. If I do that I might as well roll tube and if I roll tube JUST in the rear it will look weird.

J. J.

Last edited by patooyee; 10-25-2009 at 12:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 11-01-2009, 08:56 PM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
Well that game sucked! I'm glad I stayed at the shop as long as I did! Talk about doign everything you can to loose! Joe Cox sucks.

Anyway, finished up the rear truss. You can see how I made a tab to tie it into the axle housing itself to help kee from twisting the chunk loose. (Had that problem a while back on my old buggy when I had a steering ram attached to the chunk.)









Had a little bit of extra time so I situated the buggy on the lift to where it was relatively where it would be once the coilovers are on it. This should be pretty dead on ride height. Lowest point on the belly is 20", highest is 21", highest point on cage is exactly 6' although I may install a light bar that would obviously be higher.



Now that the suspension is situated I guess the next step is tube work and driveshafts.

J. J.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 11-01-2009, 09:55 PM
KEGGER1454's Avatar
KEGGER1454 KEGGER1454 is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 456
mmmm....looks beefy!
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 11-05-2009, 12:28 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
Gosh, I couldn't even begin going through step by step what is required for the LS2. It is so much more involved than my old propane engine! Do you have something specific you are wondering about? I'm an expert by no means.
Nothing specific... I was just curious how involved it is. I'd like to do some kind of swap in my Nova one of these days and the LS smallblocks are gradually becoming affordable.

The buggy looks awesome at ride height with those tires. Are you planning to extend the axle truss work out along the tubes?
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 11-05-2009, 01:12 PM
$CEEP's Avatar
$CEEP $CEEP is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: albumexinewquerqueco
Posts: 1,000
mmmmmm.. beefy.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 11-05-2009, 02:19 PM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
I spent the past 2 days obsessing over steering an brakes. After many hours test fitting junk I came to realize that using the double ended rams like I originally wanted was not going to work. About the only thing that DOES fit are single ended rams witht he tie rods on top of the stock knuckle locations. This is good and bad. Good because I don't have to fab hi-steer arms anymore and I get to use the stock knuckles which are really beefy and I have no worries about. Bad because my steering is a little lower than I want (still higher than stock) and my hydaulics will no longer be balanced. (Not really that big of a deal I guess.) So I ordered up a couple of these for several reasons:



The price is right, I've never had a negative experience with ag rams, they are easily replaceable, and they use large attachment hardware. I looked all around for aftermarket rams that suited me but they all use smaller attachment hardware that I have bent in the past with less power and smaller tires and they all just seemed overpriced for what you get. The only rams that seemed cool were the new Evolution Machine ones but after 3 calls they couldn't seem to find time to call me back with a price so screw em.

Anyway, I forgot my real camera so all I got was shitty cell phone pics:





Next was pinion brakes. I didn't have enough space in the front to run my custom big-rotor Wilwood setup that I love so much so I had to revert back to the old Mazda / Toyota setup that is the standard and that I overheated in Harlan. I should still be able to use my setup in the rear but there was just no way in the front. I guess I'll just have to be careful coming down the mountain in harlan from now on. (Hopefully this buggy having some compression brakign will help some, too.) Clearance at full compression is TIGHT and at full droop the link BARELY clears the rotor and caliper. I had brackets to mount the setup but ended up having to make my own just to clock the caliper a few more degrees up to clear the link:



Next step is going to be to start building some bracketry for the rams when they arrive on Mon.

J. J.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:11 PM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
I've been obsessing about steering for the past few weeks and every tiem I would get started on somethign at the shop something at work or home would come up and I would have to pack up and leave before getting anythign done. But I finally got a day to myself today and got my front cylinder/winch mount done. It is all bolt on to the front axle. The winch can come off independantly from the steering. I'm still waiting to hear back from Ballistic about soem custom steering arms.







J. J.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 11-23-2009, 01:02 AM
dedmetal's Avatar
dedmetal dedmetal is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 318
I see you are havimg the same packaging problems with the double ended rams. Still trying to work out my front steering with the knuckles facing to rear to give correct ackerman angle on the front (feeling your pain).What arms are you having made for it ?maybe they will work for mine also we could double the order and get them more interested to one off some.
I like your winch mount, just got a top hat from mudpro to mount mine on top of the chuck .
keep up the good work
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:32 AM
patooyee's Avatar
patooyee patooyee is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 772
I doubt you're going to want my arms just because they're pretty specific for my application. I didn't consider for akerman at all either. Just what fits. But if you want to PM me your email address and I will send you a PDF with dimensions of what I'm having done and if you want it I will have them do more.

J. J.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS
Copyright 2012, Offroad Fabrication Network