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  #41  
Old 01-12-2012, 01:30 PM
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Fixed it for ya
Too bad it didn't need "fixing"
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2012, 07:34 PM
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JaysinSpaceman JaysinSpaceman is offline
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Fixed it for ya
Thanx Bandit.
At least I got one person on board with my slider Idea.

Jaysin
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  #43  
Old 01-26-2012, 10:56 PM
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Small Update,

I got the front axle reinforced. I didn't truss it, I just don't think I need to for my application and more unsprung weight = harsher ride. I did add some ring gear protection just because those Toyota diff covers are not the strongest. And then welded a spacer on the drivers side spring perch to level them out. And also filled in the steering stops so they can't get crushed. Then I painted it (along with the knuckles and some other bits) up good with some satin black Rustoleum.

Today I had a bit of time and I started to reassemble it. Shimmed the knuckles, WHAT A PAIN IN THE KEISTER!! Shimming to get the pull right was easy but splitting the shims to get the knuckle concentric to the axle housing, F#(K! I must have had the knuckles on and off at least 40 times. But they're done, I just have to pull them one more time to install the seals and grease the bearings.

I made a tool to hold a jeweled dial indicator in order to take the measurements to shim correctly. I copied it from and old article that was posted up on pirate. It worked well and was quite inexpensive if you have an indicator on hand.

I got the High Steer from Trail Gear from my family for X-mas and I picked up an IFS steering box from pick-n-pull a week or two ago so hopefully I will be starting on the steering box install soon. I thought about buying the TG steering box mount but decided that I would just design and make it up myself, the pre-made ones don't lend themselves well to being pushed as far forward on the frame as possible to go with the R-U-F springs.

I will try to get a pic of the axle tomorrow so you can see my diff armor and paint job, cuz I know how much everybody like pictures.

Thanx,
Jaysin
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  #44  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:44 PM
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Definitely would like to see what you've done, especially the knuckle centering tool. I don't know that the system needs to be perfecty centered. I think the splines can tolerate a little bit of misalignment and I think mostly what you're doing with centering the knuckles is ensuring a good axle seal. I didn't put any real effort into centering mine, but I definitely wanted that bearing preload right on the money.

What year is your axle housing? Does it have the factory full length truss on the bottom?

Are you going to cut out the body mount area to get that steering box forward? When you make your plates, be sure to use tube spacers where the bolts go so it doesn't collapse when you tighten it down.
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  #45  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:00 PM
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Definitely would like to see what you've done, especially the knuckle centering tool. I don't know that the system needs to be perfecty centered. I think the splines can tolerate a little bit of misalignment and I think mostly what you're doing with centering the knuckles is ensuring a good axle seal. I didn't put any real effort into centering mine, but I definitely wanted that bearing preload right on the money.

What year is your axle housing? Does it have the factory full length truss on the bottom?

Are you going to cut out the body mount area to get that steering box forward? When you make your plates, be sure to use tube spacers where the bolts go so it doesn't collapse when you tighten it down.
I will try to get a picture of the alignment tool. I got within .005" of concentric, I think that is close enough.

The axle is an 83 same as the truck. The stock bottom truss goes from the diff to the D-side spring perch.

I never bolt through a hollow section without using spacers to keep the section from collapsing. Thanx though.

Got to run.

Later,
Jaysin
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  #46  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JaysinSpaceman View Post
I never bolt through a hollow section without using spacers to keep the section from collapsing. Thanx though.
I know you know enough to do that on your own, but I said it anyway because some people don't (especially on another site I frequent).
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:25 PM
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(especially on another site I frequent).
What other site is there?
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2012, 09:33 PM
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Clint, I figured you knew that I knew to never do it without that but that you had to say it just to get it across, that's why I just reiterated what you already said. hehe.

And E, I don't beleive him about "another" site.

Jaysin
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2012, 06:57 PM
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OK, so I said I would post up a picture or two.

The ring gear armor. It's 3/16" sheet heated and formed to the cover.




The overall, not real exciting. It's an axle and a bit blurry at that.


And last is the measuring apparatus. It is a 0-15-0 jeweled dial indicator the block is just 1/2 x 2" flat bar with two pins in it that ride around the inside surface of the knuckle. It indicates off of the axle seal surface where the inner axle seal gets pressed


So there you have it, that's what I got accomplished on the truck in the last week or so.

Thanx,
Jaysin
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  #50  
Old 01-29-2012, 11:00 PM
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I want to back up for a second. I was cleaning and greasing my Birfield joints this afternoon and was thinking about how people had said that there was no reason to fill the knuckle with grease and oil, sounds like a good idea to stop the constant knuckle leaks. But then how does the spindle bushing get lubricated where the axle rides in it? I think it was Clint that had the most reasonable argument here so maybe he could chime in.

Thanx,
Jaysin
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  #51  
Old 01-30-2012, 04:28 PM
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350 Vortec 350 Vortec is offline
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Hello Jaysin
We have a Ton of these axles over here and never seen one except for sealed Landrover(they dont do it anymore) that takes any kind of oil,CV grease is the thing,i usually fill(bung on spindle carrier casing takes Grease gun,slacken swivel ball seal to let air out and untill grease appears),you should not have any leaks just a wet swivel ball,swivel bearing are supposed to be packed seperately but ppl usually dont bother,most remove caps and seals so CV grease does the job ,spindle bearing are supposed to be packed with bearing grease seperately on assembly..thats how we do it anyway!!!
Look forward to more pics,great stuff thanks


Edit-some ppl make their own blend of CV lube,black moly grease and a little gear oil
Edit again-identical shim's top/bottom is supposed to be bang on re centred CV

Last edited by 350 Vortec; 01-30-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:19 PM
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Thanx for the info on grease. As I don't plan on taking this apart again for a long time I may as well just pack it full. I only wondered because people say they are a mess to fix if you break a birf on the trail but I don't plan to wheel it hard and I will only be running 33's. Do you put a zirk fitting in the fill plug or just stick the grease gun into the hole?

I will pack the trunnion bearings by hand before I assemble it.

As for splitting the shims and having it centered, not in my case, it would have been .8mm off, which I think is way to far off center.

Thanx
Jaysin

P.S. Where is "over here"?
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  #53  
Old 01-31-2012, 01:13 AM
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yeh i just put a zert fitting in my plugs and filled with a good grade hi temp grease took about one tube per side to fill. would love to see your rig i am building a landrover series to do long range travel and a tear drop trailer to go behind it. used yota axles and a chevy 4.3 in her with a 700r4 and np205 behind that. Used all trail gear axle parts loved there service.

Sam
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  #54  
Old 01-31-2012, 03:58 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysinSpaceman View Post
Thanx for the info on grease. As I don't plan on taking this apart again for a long time I may as well just pack it full. I only wondered because people say they are a mess to fix if you break a birf on the trail but I don't plan to wheel it hard and I will only be running 33's. Do you put a zirk fitting in the fill plug or just stick the grease gun into the hole?

I will pack the trunnion bearings by hand before I assemble it.

As for splitting the shims and having it centered, not in my case, it would have been .8mm off, which I think is way to far off center.

Thanx
Jaysin

P.S. Where is "over here"?
Just put gun end in hole,perfec fit,faster fill and nipple not a good idea coz you cant tell if you pressuring it and pumping grease into spindle etc
Grease helps save CV a little from breaking by taking some of the shock out when bouncing etc and moly is even better(keeps water/mud out to)but high temp stuff as suggested is not the best as it just gets flung out of CV and is too stiff to make it's own way back in!!!CV grease or moly with a little gear oil to make it just a little more flexable
I'm also wondering how your spindle lines up after you've measured from axle casing?i wonder if your system is actually accurate if you were to measure off spindle centre at swivel centre?just thinking
Over here is Ireland!!(bed time when i posted hence delay reply)
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  #55  
Old 01-31-2012, 11:14 AM
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When I was wheeling it was mostly slow stuff and rock crawling which is a high torque, low speed (generally) application, so you may have a different need. Having changed and witnessed changing a number of broken birfs, I can tell you when the knuckle is filled with grease it is not a pretty job. All the broken peices get embedded in the grease and you really have to wipe out the entire knuckle - a nasty job especially if you're doing it in a dusty or muddy environment. I'm not all that convinced the grease in the knuckle does much to get into the areas needing lube like the balls in the birf, but it might help conduct some of the heat away and I'd bet that's why Toyota says to fully stuff it with grease in the factory service manual. The other area needing lube is the cross-hatched bushing that supports the birf/output shaft. That seems to be "sealed" away from the rest of the knuckle interior by virtue of the thrust contact area near the bearing surface on the birf. I imagine any grease in that area is going to move around within the spindle between the hub and the bushing without interaction with the grease in the knuckle.

One potential benefit of this knuckle grease ball is keeping water out/away from the birf. I think that could be a real benefit in a water crossing as I don't think the felts are a particularly robust seal - they're really more for keeping dust out.

With regard to leaking, that is usually a failed axle tube to inner shaft seal. Centering the knuckle and using a tight bushing to support the birf should help, but because of the way the axle shaft is supported, it likely will explore the seal a bit especially the long side as you are doing the installation. Marlin Crawler came out with an improved seal design a few years ago and I'd recommend it. It can tolerate a lot more misalignment that the OEM replacements.
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  #56  
Old 01-31-2012, 12:38 PM
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When I was wheeling it was mostly slow stuff and rock crawling which is a high torque, low speed (generally) application, so you may have a different need. Having changed and witnessed changing a number of broken birfs, I can tell you when the knuckle is filled with grease it is not a pretty job. All the broken peices get embedded in the grease and you really have to wipe out the entire knuckle - a nasty job especially if you're doing it in a dusty or muddy environment. I'm not all that convinced the grease in the knuckle does much to get into the areas needing lube like the balls in the birf, but it might help conduct some of the heat away and I'd bet that's why Toyota says to fully stuff it with grease in the factory service manual. The other area needing lube is the cross-hatched bushing that supports the birf/output shaft. That seems to be "sealed" away from the rest of the knuckle interior by virtue of the thrust contact area near the bearing surface on the birf. I imagine any grease in that area is going to move around within the spindle between the hub and the bushing without interaction with the grease in the knuckle.

One potential benefit of this knuckle grease ball is keeping water out/away from the birf. I think that could be a real benefit in a water crossing as I don't think the felts are a particularly robust seal - they're really more for keeping dust out.

With regard to leaking, that is usually a failed axle tube to inner shaft seal. Centering the knuckle and using a tight bushing to support the birf should help, but because of the way the axle shaft is supported, it likely will explore the seal a bit especially the long side as you are doing the installation. Marlin Crawler came out with an improved seal design a few years ago and I'd recommend it. It can tolerate a lot more misalignment that the OEM replacements.
They are Not big axle's(most use them to upgrade Suzuki's here for offroad) but very strong for its size and more than capable for everyday motor(pity ye dont have Patrol's),Jaysin did say he was not on for anything serious on offroad front,the right grease gets everywhere,you will have probs if you use standard or high temp as it just gets flung out and cv ends up running dry in a little capsule of grease,ball seals are not ment to seal oil but work very well with CV grease or a good blend,factory axle seals last for years and a lot of miles,my friend only just recently changed his at 220,000miles!!!agree good bearing would be key but most dont even bother changing them here,standard spec for everyday use will last you a long long time!!! and lets not forget they are ment to be part time 4x4
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  #57  
Old 02-04-2012, 09:48 PM
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Bit more work done and a few more pictures.

Slider boxes...







So the top and bottom runners are 304ss mostly because I had it but also because I figured that it wouldn't rust where most of the vehicle weight is bearing down on them. I figured a rusty surface where the sliding is done would cause the UHMW to wear and if I could stop that from happening all the better. I used 309ss filler to TIG the 304 to the mild steel. They will be painted except for the sliding surfaces after they are installed.

So there is a little update.

Jaysin
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  #58  
Old 02-05-2012, 03:06 PM
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When you twist up that spring and load it sideways and then try to have it slide is the leaf going to contact the side plate of the slider box?
If it do then it won't and bend it likely will.
Just hard to tell in the Pix so I ask.
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  #59  
Old 02-05-2012, 04:52 PM
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The leaf shouldn't be able to touch the box ever. The rubber bushing has a shoulder that is the same diameter as the spring eye and then I added a UHMW pad that rubs the inside of the slider box, between the bushing and the side of the box.

Jaysin
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  #60  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:02 PM
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like I said hard to see in the Pix...
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