Go Back OFN Forums > Fabrication > Hotrod Fabrication

Hotrod Fabrication Hotrod Fabrication


Hotrod Fabrication Hotrod Fabrication

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #661  
Old 08-17-2016, 10:28 PM
Chassisguy's Avatar
Chassisguy Chassisguy is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 179
As far as the plug wires go. I use GoJo. Just the plan GoJo. It makes them slick enough to put together then drys with no issues or extra cleaning needed.
Reply With Quote
  #662  
Old 08-25-2016, 07:02 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
Been traveling a lot the last few weeks, but I managed to get the remaining plug wires done.

Here's a photo of the spark plug terminal. This is a dual crimp "F" style terminal - there is a separate crimp for the conductor and the insulation. I found through trial and error that you need to do the conductor crimp first on these, then the insulation crimp, otherwise it's hard to get the conductor into place.



Finished wires on both sides. These "straight" MSD terminals are awesome because you can bend them to whatever angle best clears the headers. I'm also really happy with the Dougs headers because they give plenty of room for the plug wires.





I'm very happy with how visually unobtrusive the plug wires turned out. No distraction from the valve covers.



I have the following items still to wire in/through the cabin:
- OBD2 port
- Throttle pedal
- Tach
- CAN gauges for oil pressure and water temp
- Fuel pump relay
- Key start & run

The rest of the laundry list includes:
- Transmission cooling lines
- Misc hoses and hose clamps, including steam lines, PCV, and power steering return
- Fuel, oil, transmission fluid, ps fluid
- Install a battery
- Electrical & system checks
- Line up a tuner

Getting very close! Hopefully I'll have it running before my 10th cancerversary in October.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #663  
Old 08-30-2016, 01:32 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
Went to the junkyard today in search of a 940 or similar vintage Volvo and found one

Ok, I think you are a EE by trade? Maybe I made that up...

My dad has already purchased a 16" Spal fan for the c10 radiator he had made. I can't stand the thought of having the fan run full speed 8 months out of the year in TX due to AC demand.

I found a OEM PWM controller from a chrysler product that some guys are using with there PCM converted to PWM fan control. If I used this (any) pwm controller to get a "low" speed, how would I get the signal (at the moment I don't want to pay to have the ECM tuned, again)? I mean to say how could I get a reference signal to the controller to equate to a % output. My rookie feeling is to just use a potentiometer to step down a 5v signal to say 35% of fan output?

My idea here is to just use the PWM control for a low speed relay essentially and the reg HI fan relay to engage full speed. After it's all running and we get it on a dyno somewhere to get live tuned I will have them convert it to PWM control and ditch the regular relays all together and use PWM fan control only.

Side note, are you using the PCM to control the compressor with the factory transducer on the high side A/C line? I think I want to do that.

This got typed out really fast on break, may not make much sense

Last edited by CarterKraft; 08-30-2016 at 01:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #664  
Old 08-30-2016, 02:00 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
I'm a mechanical engineer, not electrical. I'm not sure how the Chrysler PWM controller operates, so I can't say whether or how it would respond to a constant voltage signal from a potentiometer. I have also thought about converting to PWM control and came across these two threads on the subject: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...connector.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...n-control.html I want to see how things work with the two speed setup first so I don't have another headache/integration issue to contend with. The fan is not particularly noisy on low speed and it may be operating there most of the time for me.

I am not planning to use the ECM to control or respond to the AC compressor because the E38 ECM is designed to perform that function via the BCM and GMLAN communication. I don't want to have to add a BCM or deal with programming it or adding I/O, so I am going to make the systems blind to eachother. I plan to use a trinary switch to override the ECM high speed fan relay control. The ECM will not know when the AC is on or off. I was a bit worried about idle response, but I have heard of folks implementing Vintage Air systems this way without any issues - the ECM is apparently able to adjust for the load quickly enough.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #665  
Old 08-30-2016, 02:16 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
I'm a mechanical engineer, not electrical. I'm not sure how the Chrysler PWM controller operates, so I can't say whether or how it would respond to a constant voltage signal from a potentiometer. I have also thought about converting to PWM control and came across these two threads on the subject: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...connector.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...n-control.html I want to see how things work with the two speed setup first so I don't have another headache/integration issue to contend with. The fan is not particularly noisy on low speed and it may be operating there most of the time for me.

I am not planning to use the ECM to control or respond to the AC compressor because the E38 ECM is designed to perform that function via the BCM and GMLAN communication. I don't want to have to add a BCM or deal with programming it or adding I/O, so I am going to make the systems blind to eachother. I plan to use a trinary switch to override the ECM high speed fan relay control. The ECM will not know when the AC is on or off. I was a bit worried about idle response, but I have heard of folks implementing Vintage Air systems this way without any issues - the ECM is apparently able to adjust for the load quickly enough.
Right on. You have it setup correctly IMO with the 2 speed fan. I am just trying to use what we have.
I will continue with the single speed hook up and see how it goes. I think you are right on with the ECM controlling the load, shouldn't be an issue, we have the earlier truck ecm that can handle the A/C sensor etc. so I was feeling inclined to use it.

I'll check those threads and see what I come up with. For the $30 entry price I might just get it and play with it.
Reply With Quote
  #666  
Old 08-30-2016, 02:30 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
There is a pretty awesome thread on lateralG about the same thing, a guy has sourced the correct connector etc. for the Vette module.
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215

I think a SSR would do the same job for ALLOT less coin, that is if the Dorman module is garbage (likely) and with no fancy connectors to buy.
I was thinking thermal paste it straight to the back of the shroud.

Last edited by CarterKraft; 08-30-2016 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #667  
Old 08-30-2016, 06:36 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
I think the Chrysler controller, whether Dorman or from a wrecking yard, would be a good option. It's made exactly to do this kind of thing and has at least been used by somebody, somewhere to get the job done when coupled to an LSx ECM. With the Dorman unit, you don't need to buy any fancy connectors - it comes with a connector and pigtail. You can get one for $35 from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-902-31.../dp/B0053T60SE

I have no experience/knowledge on using a solid state relay for a PWM application like this. I suspect SSRs are part of the design of these kinds of modules, but I suspect there are additional circuits to handle inrush currents and whatnot.
__________________
Clint

Last edited by TheBandit; 08-31-2016 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #668  
Old 08-30-2016, 08:33 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
I am just going to order it and see how much I can tear up. I have some 555 timers maybe I can make a 30% signal generator...

Sorry to clog your thread. Know that your hard work is not in vain, I am learning from your progress. I hope I don't catch you though!
Reply With Quote
  #669  
Old 08-30-2016, 08:39 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
And are you seeing the 902-303 as the correct PWM controller or the 902-310?
I have the 902-310 in my notes? The reviews aren't that great however now that I dig through them.
Reply With Quote
  #670  
Old 08-31-2016, 01:15 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
Sorry I grabbed the wrong one for that Amazon link above (now edited to correct). It should be 902-310.

I read the reviews a while back also and saw a few people reporting the fans would stay on or the unit would drain their battery. It makes me wonder if the Dorman module was the issue or if what killed their original module is what lead to draining with the new module. Regardless, it seems like a low risk to me. You can always check drain with a multimeter or throw a relay in front of it if you are worried about that. Or grab an OEM unit from the salvage yard.

Keep me posted on what you do for a signal generator. I would like to get some PWM to my alternator to up the voltage from it's default 13.8v.
__________________
Clint

Last edited by TheBandit; 08-31-2016 at 01:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #671  
Old 08-31-2016, 06:06 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
Awesome, I thought the drain might be from a stray voltage, maybe it needs a bleed resistor to ground to keep it from feeding off the pull up voltage.
I will get one and see what I can do with it. A relay in front of it sounds like a good idea anyway. I might even wire in another relay socket to allow you to move the relay and engage the fan key on.
Might give you a redundant option vs. no fan.
Reply With Quote
  #672  
Old 09-06-2016, 04:42 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
I thought carefully about where and how to breach my firewall to pass wiring. I really liked the idea of a Metripak or MIL-spec bulkhead connector, but with much of my firewall space consumed by the AC suitcase and ignition coils, I had limited locations for putting such a thing. Ultimately I decided to use a watertight passthrough grommet and a set of unsealled Metripak connectors so I could pass each connector through a hole, limiting the required hole size. This allowed me to utilize an existing hole just above the original firewall bulkhead connector. I just had to open it up, which I accomplished with a step bit. I had limited space without removing the brake booster, so I turned the step bit with a wrench and used thumb pressure.



With the hole prepped, I passed 15 wires through an Essentra IP67 EPDM sealing grommet.



Next I added Metripack connectors. I selected these specific connectors because they are very compact.



I used a 2, 6, and 8 terminal connectors. The 2 terminal will have wires going back to the trunk for the fuel pump relay and power from the master disconnect to the power on relay. The 6 terminal connector is for the DBW throttle pedal. The 8 terminal has the OBD GMLAN connections, battery power, ground, key on, MIL, and tachometer (with one terminal spare). These just barely fit through the 7/8" hole on the firewall, passing the largest connector first.



With the pass through harness done, I started on the first sub harness to the DBW throttle pedal. There is a subtle difference between the connections on a truck DBW pedal and the C6 Corvette pedal that I'm using, specifically that the D and F pins on the pedal itself are switched, so in order to use the C6 pedal, I had to swap these pins on the pedal connector. In the photo immediately below, the wires are brown and white/blk and they are positioned for the truck pedal



In the next photo, I have switched the brown and white/blk wires so they will connect to the proper terminals on the C6 pedal and I've added the 6pin mating connector to go to the firewall passthrough harness.



I also made up a similar sub-harness for the OBD2 connector, although I did not take a photo. The OBD2 pinout for the E38 ECM is as follows:

Pins 1,2,&3: Not Used
Pin 4: (BLACK) Ground
Pin 5: (BLACK/WHITE) Ground
Pin 6: (TAN/BLACK) GM High Speed LAN Serial Data Bus +, ECM X1 Pin 28
Pins 7 thru 13: Not Used
Pin 14: (TAN) GM High Speed LAN Serial Data Bus -, ECM X1 pin 27
Pin 15: Not Used
Pin 16: (RED/WHITE) Battery Positive Voltage

I should have the remainder of the wiring done pretty soon.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #673  
Old 10-05-2016, 10:47 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
I searched through the thread but didn't see anything.

Are you fusing the alternator charging wire any place?

I ordered a mega fuse holder to do so, but now I am second guessing putting a "shunt" in the charging line. I am also scared to leave it un-fused.
A fusible link is probably the best bet but I don't care for the invisibility of the link if/when roadside repairs are needed.

Don't think I am relying on you for the answer, I just want to spitball the idea with you.
Reply With Quote
  #674  
Old 10-05-2016, 11:44 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
I'm not fusing the charge wire. I don't think any of the oems do that, even with rear/trunk batteries.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #675  
Old 10-06-2016, 10:51 AM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
I haven't researched any of the OEMs but that would seem to have allot of potential for damage. I think Ford and others use fusible links in there charging wires.

Thinking back I can't remember ever using fuses or links in any other charging systems but they also weren't very high amp systems.

With the current system with high amperage fans etc. I want to do this one right.
In my research the battery cable is not fused but is sized to handle the amount of current the battery can deliver to ground. The same can't be said for the alternator cable which is usually half the size of the battery cable. I am going to fuse it near the battery with a fuse rated about 1/3 higher than the max amp rating of the alternator. It will be an easy fix if it causes any problems but I am nervous about that cable being snaked around the intake with no protection.
Reply With Quote
  #676  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:29 PM
TheBandit's Avatar
TheBandit TheBandit is offline
Instagram @chevyhotrodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura County CA
Posts: 4,403
I may simply be incorrect. My searching so far has been fruitless on circuit protection for this. Sorry I can't be of help.
__________________
Clint
Reply With Quote
  #677  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:33 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
Your helping me plenty. I didn't want to imply you should have fusing either.

Just thinking about this now with a blank canvas it seemed odd to have a un-fused 6 ga wire running through the engine compartment.
Reply With Quote
  #678  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:35 PM
entropy's Avatar
entropy entropy is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 95-miles from the center of Oregon.
Posts: 8,376
A link: http://www.bcbroncos.com/3ginstall.pdf

E
__________________
When did empirical knowledge get replaced by a theoretical education?

Reply With Quote
  #679  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:36 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
There is a SAE standard, I am not paying for the paper though to see what it says.

http://standards.sae.org/j156_201603/
Reply With Quote
  #680  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:38 PM
CarterKraft's Avatar
CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
Master Fabricator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by entropy View Post
And so it goes, until I see otherwise I will mega fuse it at the battery.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS
Copyright 2012, Offroad Fabrication Network