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Race Car Fabrication There is a lot of cool fabriaction going on the race car industry, show us what you got.


Race Car Fabrication There is a lot of cool fabriaction going on the race car industry, show us what you got.

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  #281  
Old 08-26-2015, 07:35 AM
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Graham08 Graham08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysinSpaceman View Post
She's a looker. Can't wait to see a video or 12.

Nice,
Jaysin
Thanks! I am seriously considering getting a GoPro or similar for some onboard footage.

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Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
oooh sexy. Don't you dare put that thing into a wall!

What kind of graphics/paint do you have planned for it?
The plan is to keep from bending it, but that's always a hazard with this type of racing.

As far as paint goes, I keep going back and forth between something really traditional like pearl white with purple scallops, or this:





But I'm not sure the lightning bolts will work with my body lines.

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Originally Posted by deaner View Post
Looks great! Must be great feeling to have it this far along. Kinda sad for us, hate to see this build come to an end. I look forward to progress every time I turn on the laptop. Sure hoping you start a new build thread when this is done.
Thanks! Getting the car to this point has been a long time coming. I'm sure I will be starting something new when it's actually finished. I can't sit still for long!

I'm in the process of putting finishing touches on the body. Last night I got going on louvers after taking a night to clean the shop.



These allow air to exit the radiator so the car will cool properly. They do serve a purpose beyond looking cool!



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  #282  
Old 08-26-2015, 05:22 PM
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I think the lightening bolts might work if you adapt the design to your body shape. Here's my attempt at photoshop. Let me know if you want to see a different color or try something.
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  #283  
Old 08-26-2015, 05:33 PM
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JaysinSpaceman JaysinSpaceman is offline
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I can't do the paint thing like above, but I have always thought that machine grey with ox blood red scallops and dark blue pin stripe at the boarders would look great on a sprint car themed hotrod. Maybe it would work on an actual sprint car. Of course, everyone I know thinks I have weird taste in colors though.

Thanx for posting more progress pix. Do you have a louver press? You may have mentioned before but I can't remember.

Thanx,
Jaysin
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  #284  
Old 08-26-2015, 05:45 PM
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Thanks for the input on paint...I still have a while to think about it. I may have to do a poll when I get closer.

I don't have a dedicated louver press, but I do have a set of 2" wide dies for my lever punch press. They appear to have been shop made. I bought them from a used equipment dealer. I'll post a couple pics. This setup works really well for panels, but the 24" throat would be a little rough for doing hoods or the like.
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  #285  
Old 08-27-2015, 08:19 AM
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One more louver shot...



And the tools I use to make them.

My lever punch. This is a Whitney-Jensen Model 34 lever punch. It has 8 ton capacity and a 24" throat. Roper-Whitney still makes these...mine was a $200 auction find. While I would love to have a Rotex or similar turret punch to save the time of changing dies all the time, I really like this thing because it can use larger punches and is more versatile than a Rotex.



A closer-up picture of the louver tool as installed.



I always liked the tags on the side of this thing, especially the old school dealer tag. This is from back when manufacturing was really hopping in NE Ohio.



And a pic of the male punch:



I'm not sure exactly what the origin of this tooling is. When I got it, I had to spend some time with a die grinder to deepen the recess in the die to allow the louver to be fully formed. I learned at that point that they're definitely heat treated, and most likely made from tool steel. Once I tuned up the lower die they have worked really well for me. IMO, louvers are like dimple dies...really cool in the right spot, but they can be overused. I'm always looking for the right spot, though!

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  #286  
Old 08-27-2015, 01:58 PM
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Badass!

I'm sure this is fab 101 for a lot of folks, but I'm not familiar with Dzus fasteners. For the type you're using, are the fasteners captive/held to the sheet metal or do they fall off/out when you detach them? What does the mating part look like on the chassis? How are you locating the two parts so they match up when assembled?

I have a situation where I need to put a piece of sheet metal over an existing hole and transfer the hole location to the sheet for a fastener. Since it's blind and I can't get to the backside, so I'm not sure how I'll locate accurately (maybe transfer screws), but I have a feeling you might have an idea based on how you are locating these Dzus fasteners.
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  #287  
Old 08-27-2015, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
Badass!

I'm sure this is fab 101 for a lot of folks, but I'm not familiar with Dzus fasteners. For the type you're using, are the fasteners captive/held to the sheet metal or do they fall off/out when you detach them? What does the mating part look like on the chassis? How are you locating the two parts so they match up when assembled?

I have a situation where I need to put a piece of sheet metal over an existing hole and transfer the hole location to the sheet for a fastener. Since it's blind and I can't get to the backside, so I'm not sure how I'll locate accurately (maybe transfer screws), but I have a feeling you might have an idea based on how you are locating these Dzus fasteners.
I'm using plain, loose fasteners. These are aluminum, flush (FO series) buttons, which can be a bit tough to find in aluminum. There are also buttons with a reduced diameter directly under the head that are intended for use with a grommet to retain them in the panel, but the plain buttons are just simpler for what I'm doing.

I'll take some pictures for you. S&S Engineering (s-sengineering.com) makes the chassis plates and tooling to make this job a whole lot easier. Their transfer punches make putting the holes in the right place simpler than any other method I know of.
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  #288  
Old 08-29-2015, 07:54 AM
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Here are some more pictures of Dzus stuff for you, Clint.

This is the plate that resides behind the panel. I buy these from S&S because they actually manufacture this style, with the tapered edges on the top. When I rebuilt the Hyder Hawk super, it had these all over it, and I couldn't find them anywhere. I had to use the ugly (IMO) rectangular ones that I was able to find.



They offer several variations of these. This is a standard length, with the hole countersunk for use with flush buttons (but there's nothing saying you can't use them with standard buttons), and the lower edge has a small bend on it to gain weld clearance. They also offer some that are 3" long, which are handy when you get into an odd location.

This one has the spring riveted on (with pop rivets). The springs that S&S sells have large enough loops on the back side to allow you to solid rivet them, which I much prefer. I didn't do these at this time because there wasn't enough room to get the rivet gun inside the car to solid rivet without taking it apart again.

This little guy is the trick to making your holes come out in the right place every time. S&S also makes these transfer punches. Note the slot that allows it to be used after the spring is in place. Generally, I'll do the first two holes on a panel first to be able to maintain alignment, then do the remaining holes. If you try to do too many at one time, the panel tends to move as you're tapping on it to transfer hole locations.



In place, ready for service:



Another piece of tooling that's really handy is this dimple die. It uses a 3/8" bolt, so all you need is a 9/16" wrench and ratchet to operate it. This is for making the dimples for flush buttons.



I punch (or drill if I can't reach it with my XX punch) a 13/32" hole before dimpling. S&S recommends a 3/8", but when using the punch, I found that a 3/8" hole was too tight for the button to fit after dimpling. These buttons themselves are 13/32" diameter, and you generally use 7/16" holes for plain fasteners.

IMO, using flush buttons is just a nicer, more professional job. An added bonus is the dimples help locate the panel so it goes on in exactly the same place every time.

Another tool that's handy if you do a lot of this is a spring adjuster. This lets you adjust the tension it takes to actuate the fasteners. You don't necessarily need this to loosen them up (make them easier to turn) because you can just squeeze the spring closer to the plate with pliers. But, if you need them to be tightened so they don't fall out, this is the best way to go about it.



It bears directly on the rivets so you can apply quite a bit of force and not pull the springs off. You can see I did a little clearancing on mine to use it in a tight spot.

A parting thought on this is that (IMO) it's a crime against nature to use a regular screwdriver on Dzus buttons, especially the aluminum ones. If you do this much, you will make burrs in the slot, and nothing will fit tight enough to install/remove the button. At minimum, take a wide, flat screwdriver and grind a radius on the blade so it fits the slot. S&S (and many other sources) sell a paddle type tool for a couple bucks. Sometimes these are referred to as a "Snoopy" tool, because the military issued ones that do 5/16" and 7/16" buttons look like the outline of Snoopy's head. Snap-On (and others) sell screwdriver type tools for this. I think I paid less than $20 for my Snap-On one.

Hope that helps!

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  #289  
Old 08-29-2015, 08:24 PM
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Thanks for the lesson professor, very informative. As always.
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  #290  
Old 08-29-2015, 09:44 PM
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You should copy and paste that dzus post into the "fabrication 101" forum.
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  #291  
Old 08-31-2015, 03:08 PM
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That was a very helpful post, thank you! I went to www.s-sengineering.com and was surprised at how insanely reasonable their prices are for the dimpling and transfer tools. I see they also have "self ejecting" style which might be the captive type of Dzus I was thinking of. I am definitely going to bookmark their site for the future.
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  #292  
Old 09-01-2015, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
That was a very helpful post, thank you! I went to www.s-sengineering.com and was surprised at how insanely reasonable their prices are for the dimpling and transfer tools. I see they also have "self ejecting" style which might be the captive type of Dzus I was thinking of. I am definitely going to bookmark their site for the future.
Glad to be of assistance. I've seen their products for sale other places at a huge markup. They are easily the most cost effective supplier for Dzus related stuff.

One thing to be aware of with the self ejecting fasteners is you need to allow for the protruding rivets on the back side of the panel they're attached to. It's not a huge deal, but can cause problems if clearances are really tight...I've been burned by this once or twice.
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  #293  
Old 09-08-2015, 11:22 AM
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Big day Sunday! After thrashing all week, we were able to fire the engine for the first time. Sorry there aren't too many pics, we were all really busy making things happen.

My dad and my pal George were a huge help in making this happen. Between the two of them, there is well over 100 years experience in sprint cars. George currently runs a dirt sprint car that I help him with. He has a starter that bolts onto the back of the rear end which makes this whole process easier and safer. This was my first time using the starter and it's much better than putting the car in front of a truck and crossing your fingers, hoping there are no issues.

We were able to pull the spark plugs and turn the engine over with the starter to ensure we had oil pressure and that the fuel system was primed. After that, we rolled the car out, put the plugs back in, and it fired right up!

This is right after it fired. Dad is checking the timing, and George is still in position to run the gas pedal if needed. He was careful to knock the car out of gear immediately after it fired because the starter uses a chain and sprocket setup that isn't real tolerant of high speed.



Dad has the knack for setting the timing using a mag buzzer without the engine running, but we always double check with a timing light. As usual, he didn't have to move the mag.

Here they're working on the idle. We generally like the engine to idle around 1000-1200 RPM. We may wind up tweaking how the butterflies are set just a tiny bit to make it idle a little smoother, but that will wait until after we go to the track the first time.



The body is completely off in these pictures to allow us to spot any leaks easily.

I was pretty confident the engine would fire and run without issue, since it was tuned up on the dyno. The big question mark in my mind was whether all the fluids would stay in their respective correct places. There is a bunch of plumbing and pieces that I made to contain them. I am happy to report that I only had one small weeper of a leak at the fuel shutoff that I was able to fix by torquing that fitting a little more. Aside from that, all systems appear to be liquid-tight for the time being.

Now onto a few little things that need to be finished up, and actually setting the car up before we can hit the track!

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  #294  
Old 09-08-2015, 11:30 AM
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CONGRATULATIONS!
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  #295  
Old 09-08-2015, 11:36 AM
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Congrats on the first fire! I can't wait to see video and listen to the song that engine makes. Big step forward!

Jaysin
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  #296  
Old 09-08-2015, 12:22 PM
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Totally Kool!

E
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  #297  
Old 09-10-2015, 03:21 PM
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A short video of Dad and George working on the idle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I2JrSrF15c

Sort of gives you an idea of what it sounds like...
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  #298  
Old 09-10-2015, 03:47 PM
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Yeah the vid is set to private, so I can't watch
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  #299  
Old 09-10-2015, 04:07 PM
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OK, I think I fixed it. I'm new to YouTube and didn't realize you had to set that.
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  #300  
Old 09-10-2015, 04:16 PM
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You fixed it. Sounds like it's purring real nice. When's your first race?
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