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Benders and Bending Which bender is best? How do you use a bender? How do you calculate bends? Everything Bender related...


Benders and Bending Which bender is best? How do you use a bender? How do you calculate bends? Everything Bender related...

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  #41  
Old 11-13-2015, 03:01 PM
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Again it is nearly impossible to make a 'w' shape in one bend without stretching the metal.


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  #42  
Old 11-13-2015, 05:02 PM
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I agree but looking at the RED W in Bandits MS paint is the peak of the center long enough to "stage" the bends so that it would start the bend before engaging the second bends.

I clearly am spitballing having ZERO experience in this. I can't help but want to try this.
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2015, 05:35 PM
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Dude, all I do is spitball. I half expect to jump on the forum one day and find all my posts moved to the "you're not a real fabricator when..." thread.
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Last edited by TheBandit; 11-13-2015 at 06:27 PM.
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  #44  
Old 11-13-2015, 09:27 PM
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That's some funny $hit Clint.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2015, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarterKraft View Post
Look at Jays rotary bender... Sorry the ball was on the tee.
You aren't kidding there but I did build an entire diesel pickup in the mean time. And the thing is that I have had such little need for the tube bender that I can count on one hand the number of times I borrowed one since starting that project.

Back to your predicament. Search YouTube for the bulldozer Horizontal bender. I think E is right you don't want to bend W shapes because of stretching. But shooting one at a time with a bender like that wouldn't be too bad. About 45 or 50 seconds in they show bending a very similar shape.

Jaysin
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  #46  
Old 11-14-2015, 10:22 AM
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I think you guys are swinging at a fly with a sledge hammer. It's only 1"x 1/8". The bends should be set up to be easily repeatable, doing three or six bends manually, then resetting. Manual bending with this size material will be much faster than a hydraulic bender.
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  #47  
Old 11-14-2015, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaner View Post
I think you guys are swinging at a fly with a sledge hammer. It's only 1"x 1/8". The bends should be set up to be easily repeatable, doing three or six bends manually, then resetting. Manual bending with this size material will be much faster than a hydraulic bender.
You are very right. I was just thinking about the speed of bending these parts this morning and the fact that hydraulics will be slow and I was thinking that this could be done with the same sort of dies on a manual contraption with a peddle and levers to multiply operator weight. Position the material, step on the peddle, reposition, repeat.

Looking at a press brake calculator bending this material with a 1.5" v opening would take .39 ton or 780 lbs. of force. With a peddle and some leverage that should be easy. And if that is still to much force move to a 2" v die, that's only .26 ton or 520 lbs.

Then you can bend as fast as you can step on a peddle.

Jaysin
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  #48  
Old 11-14-2015, 06:29 PM
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I ordered some 1 x 1/8 flat bar to play with last week.

I think the 1/8 flat bar may be too thin. I might try to talk them into 3/18 flat bar. I am afraid that once this gets galvanized it might warp.

I used the Amada to shear the FB into 24 in lengths. Takes about 10 seconds.

Then rotated the head and tried the bender. One 90 degree bend was no problem. The second one hit the top of the bender die holder.

The bender die that I am using has a large radius, but I have another one that uses a smaller radius. I need to change some parts on that die holder, but I will do that next week.

I am thinking as easy as this bent, I might make/buy some custom dies that are about 2 inches longer. This would get the dies away from the holder, and I could do multiple bends.


If this does not work, I am going to try to bend the FB around a set of pegs.

Here are the pictures



Steve




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  #49  
Old 11-14-2015, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysinSpaceman View Post
You are very right. I was just thinking about the speed of bending these parts this morning and the fact that hydraulics will be slow and I was thinking that this could be done with the same sort of dies on a manual contraption with a peddle and levers to multiply operator weight. Position the material, step on the peddle, reposition, repeat.

Looking at a press brake calculator bending this material with a 1.5" v opening would take .39 ton or 780 lbs. of force. With a peddle and some leverage that should be easy. And if that is still to much force move to a 2" v die, that's only .26 ton or 520 lbs.

Then you can bend as fast as you can step on a peddle.

Jaysin
Set it up so when you step on the peddle it makes the bend then also clamps the piece to the next bender, pull that bender by hand which clamps the piece to the third bender. Pull the third bender by hand. Release them all, slide the piece down and repeat. The whole cross done in under 2 min. I'm thinking of the top load style flat bar benders like Clint suggested, modified to fit the project.

Last edited by deaner; 11-15-2015 at 09:53 AM.
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  #50  
Old 11-16-2015, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysinSpaceman View Post
You aren't kidding there but I did build an entire diesel pickup in the mean time. And the thing is that I have had such little need for the tube bender that I can count on one hand the number of times I borrowed one since starting that project.

Back to your predicament. Search YouTube for the bulldozer Horizontal bender. I think E is right you don't want to bend W shapes because of stretching. But shooting one at a time with a bender like that wouldn't be too bad. About 45 or 50 seconds in they show bending a very similar shape.

Jaysin
I really did mean this in the nicest way possible. I have been working on a customer's Bronco for 6+ years. I have zero room to talk. Something about rocks and glass outhouses?

The fact does remain though when you need to get it done, building a machine to do it is not the right solution. Modifying an existing machine is the right play I think.

A set of offset dies for that ironworker look pretty easy to do, especially since I don't have to do it.
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  #51  
Old 11-16-2015, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrambled View Post
I am thinking as easy as this bent, I might make/buy some custom dies that are about 2 inches longer. This would get the dies away from the holder, and I could do multiple bends.
Looking at your pictures, I think that's the right answer, especially if the top die is short enough in height that it would allow the bent part to wrap around the end of the die, allowing this to be done in one piece. I would think the tonnage to do 1" x 1/8" is low enough to allow you to get away with it.
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  #52  
Old 11-16-2015, 07:42 PM
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Does the ironworker move quickly? Do you have a good way to position the bends? I'm interested to know your estimated cycle time.
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  #53  
Old 11-16-2015, 07:50 PM
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Clint- if you look at that first picture you can see the moveable stopper/ hard stop. The hard stop can index for 8 feet. I can do 999 bends / punches per program and I can have 99 programs.

The bender takes about 5-7 seconds to make a complete bend. Maybe a little quicker.


I will take more pictures and a video when I get back to the shop

Steve
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  #54  
Old 11-16-2015, 08:42 PM
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Graham-

I am going to take one of the benders apart and send the parts to American Punch. They are the people I buy my round and square punches from. They should be able to make me a set that is extended. We shall see.

I think this will be the cheapest and easiest

Steve

I still want a horizontal bender
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  #55  
Old 11-16-2015, 11:59 PM
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You should bend a piece similar to the cross you need but only 135 degree bends, since that's what you can do with your current system. Bend 12 bends every 4" but only 135 degrees, flipping it over every third bend just like you will do for the actual cross. This will give you an idea how long it will take to do each piece. If it takes too long, scrap the iron worker method. If you can do it in a reasonable time proceed.
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  #56  
Old 01-12-2016, 10:53 PM
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How did you end up doing this?

https://youtu.be/tgY5XuqwYbs
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  #57  
Old 01-12-2016, 11:44 PM
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Clint-

We modified a bending die on my AMADA nc ironworker. We can use the computer controlled stop to locate the bend point. So far so good.

We are just waiting for the paper work to get finished before we start. Should be a week or so.

I will post pictures when we start


Steve
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  #58  
Old 07-28-2016, 02:46 PM
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Update time-

We finally got the paperwork out of the way, got the P.O., and was able to start.

We made 35 of these panels. Now they are off to the Powdercoater.

We were able to use the AMADA to shear the 1 x 1/8 flatbar and to bend the crosses.

Here is a picture.


Steve

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  #59  
Old 07-28-2016, 03:52 PM
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Nice work.
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  #60  
Old 08-01-2016, 11:31 PM
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That is a work of art! Did you end up making all the bends in one tool on one continuous piece or did you make the cross in sections and weld them together? Any photos or video of the dies you made in action?
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