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Race Car Fabrication There is a lot of cool fabriaction going on the race car industry, show us what you got.


Race Car Fabrication There is a lot of cool fabriaction going on the race car industry, show us what you got.

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  #1  
Old 01-05-2016, 01:10 PM
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Graham08 Graham08 is offline
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Updating a dirt sprint car chassis for non-wing use

This past fall at Eldora, I helped my buddy George run his non-wing dirt sprint car. It's an older Stealth chassis that I've helped him with a few modifications over the years to work better without a wing. At the end of the night, our driver said, "George, you need to put this thing on a diet!". Apparently that got the wheels turning, and he brought his spare chassis (a newer J&J) over to my shop for the same series of upgrades. The frame is definitely lighter than the old car, and as long as we mind our P's and Q's, that should translate to this car being lighter when it hits that track. It also doesn't hurt that this is a newer car with just a few nights on it.

As it arrived at the shop. He picked up the frame and body for cheap. It has been run, but doesn't appear to have ever been involved in a major incident.



First up, and the biggest change, was to convert the rear torsion tubes over to "reverse" configuration. This means that the short torsion arm is now on the left side, which means it's generally going to result in a stiffer wheel rate. We did this to the old car and it really transformed the way it handled. This helps keep load on the left rear tire, which really helps the car drive off the corner without a wing.

This started by cutting a pair of tubes of 1-1/2" x 0.095" 4130, and facing the ends square in the lathe:



Next up, I joined them together with some short spacer tubes to set the "split", and get the offset between the two correct:



After tacking in some temporary bracing:



I carefully cut out the old tubes:



This is easily the worst part of this job! I hate grinding.

New tubes all welded in:



More in a bit...
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:16 PM
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Next up was adding some bungs to the frame for aluminum radius rod brackets. Without the wing, a lot of guys run long rear radius rods. They seem to help with forward drive on rougher tracks.

To help this along, I made a tool to clamp onto the frame tube and guide a hole saw. It's sort of like a small, non-adjustable tube notcher. This was made out of leftover pieces I had around:





Power comes from a 1/2" drill. Here it is clamped onto the frame:



Bungs tacked in place:



Left side bracket:



The right side bracket originally had three holes. There was room to add a fourth hole above the existing three. We'll use this on dry/slick tracks where moving the radius rods up loads the rear tires more quickly on exit:



A simple little thing was to mount the fuel tank. Mounts were already present for an "outlaw" style tank like George runs. I just had to transfer the tabs from the torsion tubes I cut out to the new ones I welded in.

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Old 01-06-2016, 07:36 AM
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The next bit isn't really wing/non-wing specific, but an added bit of safety. A lot of guys run a left side "safety cage", which isn't much more than an added hoop. I made one for this car that fits a piece of fiberglass George had bought that didn't fit the old car.

The added tubes:



This is 1-3/8" x 0.095" wall 4130.

The fit to the glass:



The fiberglass fits the car really well, except it looks like it was made for a car with the top rail slightly lower in the car. We'll wind up filling that gap with a piece of aluminum or adding some glass.

Once the tubing was done, I went ahead and hung the fiberglass on the car with Dzus fasteners.



I was able to use some existing tabs that were on the car, and I had to add a few.

These are conventional flush buttons, with backup plates to keep from pulling through the glass. I used solid rivets to attach the plates, and have washers on the back side of the rivets to ensure they don't pull through.



The last thing I did was to brace the front torsion tubes. This was my idea, based on what we're trying to do to keep load on the RF-LR diagonal. Without a wing, we run a long front axle, and an angle broached RF torsion arm to move the contact point out on the axle...all of which is intended to keep load on the RF and make the car more stable. This also increases the leverage on an unbraced tube, making it flex that much more.



I figure a few extra ounces of 1" x 0.065" wall tube won't hurt anything, and is going the same direction as what we're doing by reversing the rear torsion tubes. In my unofficial research, I've found pictures that show a lot of cars were built this way up until the early 1980's. I'm not sure why they stopped...if it was just deemed unnecessary, too much work, or some other reason. I went ahead and did the LF while I was at it:



And that's pretty much it. Fingers crossed that it all works!
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:11 PM
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Nice work as always! Small hands at the lathe for this project?
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  #5  
Old 01-07-2016, 07:29 AM
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Yeah, Brock was hanging out with me in the shop that night!
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2016, 07:04 PM
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Yeah, Brock was hanging out with me in the shop that night!
I hope he takes in interest in racing. I can't imagine a better mentor than the man he calls Daddy.

Joanne
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Old 06-18-2016, 08:41 AM
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KDP Motorsports LLC KDP Motorsports LLC is offline
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Hi Graham
Did your buddy race this car yet I'm curious how it handled I'm getting ready to change a winged Maxim big max to wingless for my son to run in a 360 class that is going to start up out this way.
Thanks Dean
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:44 PM
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Rokcrler Rokcrler is offline
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Nice notcher.. i need to make one like that for adding airbumps in chassis tubes... Thanks for the idea!
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  #9  
Old 06-20-2016, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KDP Motorsports LLC View Post
Hi Graham
Did your buddy race this car yet I'm curious how it handled I'm getting ready to change a winged Maxim big max to wingless for my son to run in a 360 class that is going to start up out this way.
Thanks Dean
Not quite yet. He's in the process of putting it all together to make some races in the next few weeks. I spent a few hours over the weekend making him a second set of torsion arms and rear radius rods for this car.

That's cool they're getting a non-wing class going in your area. I have been following non-wing racing pretty much exclusively for the past couple years and it's a great show, and really puts things in the hands of the driver and the setup instead of the engine shop.

I went to the USAC race at Port Royal last weekend and noticed there are a lot of guys running pretty standard looking Maxim cars. I didn't see any reverse tube cars, and pretty much all of them were running short radius rods in the rear. I think the primary difference when taking the wing off is the longer (usually 53") front axle, possibly running an angle-broached RF torsion arm, and setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokcrler View Post
Nice notcher.. i need to make one like that for adding airbumps in chassis tubes... Thanks for the idea!
Cool! Glad to hear that someone else is going to use that idea.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2016, 04:31 PM
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KDP Motorsports LLC KDP Motorsports LLC is offline
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Wish I knew you were at Port Royal we were there too..we could have gotten togeather..How did the arms turnout I would like to see them.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:59 AM
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Well crap! That would have been cool to meet up. My brother-in-law lives in Mechanicsburg, so we went over to see them and go to the Silver Crown race at Williams Grove. I went to Port Royal also since we had driven about six hours to get over there and it's tough for me to pass up seeing a USAC race!

Here are the arms and radius rods:



Closer up to the arms:



These use the old school LPS ends and 1-3/8" x 0.120" wall 4130 tube. They are a little heavier than the aluminum versions most guys run, but I like these better for stiffness, especially with the offset on the RR.

Since we're trying to be weight conscious, I milled the back side of the bungs off:



George hopes to have the car on four wheels this week, then get the engine installed shortly after that.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:27 PM
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KDP Motorsports LLC KDP Motorsports LLC is offline
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Thanks for the pictures,more ideas for the wingless car so we can really dial ourselves out,lol..We raced almost every week at the Grove for about 10 years with the 358 & 410 now once in a while with the 360 and URC.Its a 2 hour trip for us.Now we just run a 305 at New Egypt and Bridgeport both in Jersey we just got burned out from the travel.Were at Bridgeport Friday and Grandview Saturday both less then an hour from home.Where is a good place to source the bar ends for the arms. Thanks
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDP Motorsports LLC View Post
Thanks for the pictures,more ideas for the wingless car so we can really dial ourselves out,lol..We raced almost every week at the Grove for about 10 years with the 358 & 410 now once in a while with the 360 and URC.Its a 2 hour trip for us.Now we just run a 305 at New Egypt and Bridgeport both in Jersey we just got burned out from the travel.Were at Bridgeport Friday and Grandview Saturday both less then an hour from home.Where is a good place to source the bar ends for the arms. Thanks
Here's a link to the ends: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Torsio...ined,9558.html

They also sell a kit that has a bent tube and a bung if you don't have a way to bend 1-3/8" tubing.

Are you looking to do the NEWS series at New Egypt? I follow them on Facebook, it looks like a pretty cool deal. The transmission looks like an expensive piece, but I get why they want to run them, so they can go to tracks that don't run sprint cars all the time.
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:45 PM
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Thanks for the link,yea I can bend my own arms just didn't know where to get the ends.No not the NEWS sprints this a stand alone 360 traveling series for next year their trying to get drivers to commit and looking for around 10 to 12 races to start with.Curt Michael from URC is heading this up asked my son if he was interested which he is..
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Old 08-29-2016, 12:44 PM
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George has gotten to run the car twice. This past Saturday at Atomic Speedway in Chillicothe, OH. with Bill Rose driving.

Good news: Bill drew the outside front row for the heat race, and won going away. Here's a vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohSGZO8RpHc

Bad news: They missed the setup just a bit after re-drawing outside the front row for the feature and dropped back a few spots.

Worse news: Someone got impatient and put the bumper to the car in front of them. Bill couldn't miss him. Fortunately the damage isn't serious, just enough they couldn't fix it in three yellow flag laps. The whole thing is about two minutes into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7x_gzLCLB8

I'm hoping to make it to the next planned outing at Fremont.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:29 PM
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Plans changed a little bit and George ran the Four Crown at the world famous Eldora Speedway this past weekend. I finally was able to go to the track with him, and got a few pictures of the finished car:



It's showing a couple battle scars because every outing this year has involved getting in someone else's mess. Fortunately, there hasn't been any severe damage, but it's frustrating when you get taken out of a top 5 finish by something not of your making.

We had better luck at Eldora in that there were no crashes. Unfortunately, we were one car away from transferring to the feature in a very stout field of cars.

Matt, our sign guy is the BEST. George always makes sure I get a little love for all the help in putting the car together.



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Old 09-27-2016, 02:25 PM
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Those are some very kind advertisements, well deserved. Great community you're involved in. I wish I had time to be more than a spectator.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:56 PM
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huh,, small world ,, I had my car parked just around the corner by that silver van ,, walked by and looked at your car several times that night,, had friends running midgets at the Crown ,, great racing ! First time to Eldora, I was impressed, Tony's got a first class place.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dqracer View Post
huh,, small world ,, I had my car parked just around the corner by that silver van ,, walked by and looked at your car several times that night,, had friends running midgets at the Crown ,, great racing ! First time to Eldora, I was impressed, Tony's got a first class place.
No kidding! Too bad we didn't make connections. We didn't have the best night at Four Crown...just missed the feature. Two weeks later at the BOSS race was a much better outing.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:38 PM
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its a tough sport, the competition is so close these days, everything has to click just right to win . I'm a wingless fan, the racing is better, you see who has the driver and setup vs money and motor. we'll keep an eye out for your hotrod next time we're up that way.
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