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  #1  
Old 03-03-2012, 12:10 AM
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How much must you keep to be legal?

I know this is a weird question but I honestly didn't know where else to ask it. I'm in California and to wheel in the state parks legally your vehicle needs to be street legal. While Im not interested in driving down the street in town it might be nice to jump on the road if I had to out in the desert.

I have a 47 Jeep and pink slip that is current on its registration. If I turned this thing into a crawler and kept it street legal as far as lights, wipers, Horn, bumpers and all the other B.S. how much of the original Jeep would i need to keep to keep it legal? If I bend up a new frame, suspension and update the motor is it no longer a jeep? If I keep the fire wall and tailgate and windshield frame it that enough as long as the numbers match the pink slip and reg. ? Just curious how far I can go before its an issue?

Last edited by METAL TWISTER; 03-03-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:59 AM
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I think the worst you're going to have to worry about is mudflaps

If socal is anything like norcal, I've never heard police officers harrassing people due to the extend of modifications, as long as the tires aren't kicked out too far without being covered and it isnt obnoxiously loud. We're lucky not to have inspections here!

While not quite to the same extent as your talking about I still drive my jeep to and from the trails we go to, generally 100+ miles each way and the only thing that worries me is the dovenose completely exposed the front tires which could get me another annoying mudflap ticket.

Here's a pic of me screwing around in Johnson Valley during KOH 2012
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2012, 02:46 AM
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A very hard question to answer no matter what state, province, country, city, town ... as soon as you think of putting 35'z on it.. It's not street legal according to the higher shit don't stink...

Like anything else in life, I just do it and deal with changes as needed...


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Old 03-03-2012, 03:19 AM
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For the most part it will be a trailer queen to and from. Thinking just encase. And nothing says "I'm trying" like Giant mud flaps. LOL



Used to get stopped all the time for B.S. reasons... Threw these bad boys on and I've not been stopped since. It might be a bit different with a buggy on the road. LOL
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:06 AM
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Well...... Arnold did pass same sex marriage a screw the maid in Cali... they should be fine ....


Kiding aside.. thoughs look awefull, flaps on non commercial need only to be down to 1/2 the tire and cover tire width as a min.... but like you said you got stopped for BS reasons... I had a cop tell me once my rubicon leaf suspention is not legal... had to go through DOT again for 175 bucks and it past....

Think I start to carry a unopen bottle of Jack Daniels in my pocket, I'd rather take a chance on a bribe beef ....

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Old 03-03-2012, 02:08 PM
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I was never told to put on the flaps... It was just a statement saying that IM legal! I did the over size flaps on purpose and it truly worked! Also I think the CHP here in So Cal see off road stuff so much they kinda know they can find something if they really want to.
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:33 PM
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well takin a second look 'this morning' LOL.... there not that bad... hehe

they will definatly work great for hauling trailers keepin' the shit off.. lots of guys up here do that for that..

back in 09 i got nailed for no flaps and fenders not wide enough.. had to be 2" wider than tire.. and the flaps are bolted on to remove for off road...

totally ruined the look of fenders (I hate them) and just put some conveyor belt rubber to pass.... but i plan on changing them one day hehe...




It's always a flip of a coin when it comes to cops or DOT... I had one stop me just to look at the rig.. he liked it.... LOL....


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  #8  
Old 03-03-2012, 06:59 PM
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Yeah that's the reason I get stopped. They want to gawk. Around town its never a problem, it always happens when I'm loaded up and trying to get out of town on a Friday night. Oh well, the games we have to play to be on the cutting edge. LOL
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  #9  
Old 03-03-2012, 07:59 PM
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Back in the day...
We had this little 68 Skylark the GS Version it had a few modifications here and there. I rolled the quarters to clear the 245's and it had a few suspension mods.
I had a set of NOS Old'skewel Appliance 5-spoke steelies and that car would get pulled over for BS like you can not believe!!
Finally I had Willamette Wheel recenter the rears in a 8" wide rim so I could drop the rear 2" (Tire shake would just touch the sidewalls). I didn't want to pop for re-chroming so I blacked out the wheels in a high-gloss Black/gold metal flake epoxi. I dechromed the car except the bumpers and grill surround and that was all it took. No change to the Cam, Intake, Hookers-3" tubes that dropped at the rear axle... That car sounded so nice! Shook windows 3 blocks away! Blacked out the wheels and I could not get pulled over for lovenormoney

In most states there is a line where you have "Reconstructed" the car.
I would keep the frame from the engine mounts to a point behind the front seat (KOH Mod Class) and I would keep the cowl/firewall. Those two pieces 99% of the time have the VIN stamped/tagged. In Oregon Title goes to the frame.* Frame must have VIN.

*Unless they have changed it...
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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I think the 2005 SEMA legislation made it so you could register your vehicle as a "Custom Car". There are obviously some rules and regulations associated with that as well, but if Cali jumped on the wagon and turned that legislation into law, you should be ok. In Maine we adopted it in 2006 or 2007, and now you can register a fully custom vehicle as a "custom car" and drive it legally on public roads and highways. The primary things to note is that the custom vehicle has to be based on a vehicle 25 years or older, and newer than 1947. If it is older than 1947 it falls under "Hot Rod" designation. Either way, much of the inspection rules go away under either the custom car or hot rod designation, and nothing in it says a custom car or hot rod can't have 35" MT-R tires and ride on a very twisty tall suspension.

Look into it.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:12 PM
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Auch!.... This discussion hurts.........
Consider yourself very lucky in the states.

When we in Belgium put a 30" on our Sammy, we are illegal......
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2012, 02:20 PM
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I understand the need for safety rules and regulation, but the bureaucratic choke hold for complete control is really starting to disgust me. Maybe its my age but I actually remember growing up free. Young guys today don't know what they are missing and they just seem to accept it... Gotta game the system as much as I can to keep what little freedom I have left!. Sorry for the rant, its just starting to really Piss Me Off!

Take all my money, Kill the economy, Then tell me what I cant do on my car!

I remember wheeling in the desert when you could go anywhere you wanted at any time. They didn't close down the desert so a goat could breed, you didn't need a day pass or permit, there were no speed limits, and the desert didn't have road signs. We didn't need special stickers to off road and we couldn't get DUI's in the middle of no where. If ya had seat belts you could use them if you were going fast enough to be dangerous, and you could go on a run legally with more than 20 rigs without a permit. These Eco Nazi's are reaching too far too fast... Something is going pop.

How long before we are saying;

When we in the United States put a 30" on our Sammy, we are illegal......

Sorry, I had to publicly vent. I feel better now... still pissed but feel better

Last edited by METAL TWISTER; 03-05-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2012, 06:40 PM
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Unfortunately us young guys are forced to accept it. I hear the stories and tales of old but have to conform to what they saw. Now that's not to saw I don't try to push the limits a bit and try to get away with something. I am in a similar boat to you in that I just picked up a 77 k10 that I want to build. I also wonder what can I get away with in this build being that I have to maintain smog equipment and all that too.

Just as you guys remember when you could go out anywhere and wheel, not needing passes or permits and worrying about speed limits we younger guys see our wheeling places getting closed down. We wonder if by the time we get our rigs ready to go whether or not we will have a place to go anymore.

I agree it's time they back off a bit!
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:45 PM
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I'm not saying its the fault of the young guns... Its just the way its always its always been for ya so you cant compare things over the span of time. Its my generation that let the EPA and a lot of other organizations get way out of hand and letting them have too much authority and power. I'm doing everything I can to fight back through all kinds of organizations that are fighting everything from smog laws to public land closures. I'm hoping that within your life your not going to be posting things like Peter H just did!

By then you will have some time and experience under your belt and you will be saying... I remember when we could change the size of the tires on our cars, and it was legal!

I wish I knew how to turn this big ass machine off (The Government) and re evaluate where we are and where we are going it such a big hurry. I guess a single vote and lots of prayers is about I have in reality.

It's hard to realize that we have been watching the ball all these years while we were sinking in quick sand. Ok Im done with the pitty party. back to fab stuff! My sanity.


As far as smog on the 77 you don't really have that much smog stuff. But I would keep it as stock as possible for the motor anyway. Dont remember if that was the first year for cat's or not?

Last edited by METAL TWISTER; 03-05-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:30 PM
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Sorry if I came off wrong, I understand what you mean and where you are coming from. I too hope that I will never feel the hurt from the regulations like Perter H is, not a couple years from now or when I am my grandfathers age (he is almost 90).

With the truck I think it is required for cats the other stuff I dont know but I sure would like to dump the older technology small block for a new lsx motor but thats where the regulatory bs comes in. That and I would not mind a custom frame and linked suspension in the future but then like you mentioned, where is the line in the sand?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoprez2006 View Post
Sorry if I came off wrong, I understand what you mean and where you are coming from. I too hope that I will never feel the hurt from the regulations like Perter H is, not a couple years from now or when I am my grandfathers age (he is almost 90).

With the truck I think it is required for cats the other stuff I dont know but I sure would like to dump the older technology small block for a new lsx motor but thats where the regulatory bs comes in. That and I would not mind a custom frame and linked suspension in the future but then like you mentioned, where is the line in the sand?
Ive been checking into up grades on different vehicle. Sounds like if you put in and engine from a like vehicle IE, P/Up to P/up then all you have to do is transfer all the smog and related equipment with the newer motor. Go see the referee and it should be good.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:48 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by METAL TWISTER View Post
I'm not saying its the fault of the young guns... Its just the way its always its always been for ya so you cant compare things over the span of time. Its my generation that let the EPA and a lot of other organizations get way out of hand and letting them have too much authority and power. I'm doing everything I can to fight back through all kinds of organizations that are fighting everything from smog laws to public land closures. I'm hoping that within your life your not going to be posting things like Peter H just did!

By then you will have some time and experience under your belt and you will be saying... I remember when we could change the size of the tires on our cars, and it was legal!

I wish I knew how to turn this big ass machine off (The Government) and re evaluate where we are and where we are going it such a big hurry. I guess a single vote and lots of prayers is about I have in reality.

It's hard to realize that we have been watching the ball all these years while we were sinking in quick sand. Ok Im done with the pitty party. back to fab stuff! My sanity.


As far as smog on the 77 you don't really have that much smog stuff. But I would keep it as stock as possible for the motor anyway. Dont remember if that was the first year for cat's or not?
man I wish there was a fav button!
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Its my generation that let the EPA and a lot of other organizations get way out of hand and letting them have too much authority and power. I'm doing everything I can to fight back through all kinds of organizations that are fighting everything from smog laws to public land closures. I'm hoping that within your life your not going to be posting things like Peter H just did!
It all started a decade ago when the youth started tuning their little Japanese cars for a hobby. It quickly became a hipe. The government smelled some money and started to issue some regulations. For instance: all modifications on the vehicle must be approved by the manufacturer of the vehicle.... No manufacturer approves a suspension lift or bigger tires!!! A bullbar or extra lights out of the manufacturers catalogue is a maximum we can do. Even a bullbar has to be CE-certified, so no more self fabricating! This is why recreational offroading is almost dead in Belgium. The only thing we can do is build a trailer queen and go to offroad parks. The second step the government did was to close all dirt roads in the woods for motorized traffic. Only in a open field motorized traffic is allowed on a dirt road...
All this happened in only 10 years!!!! The offroad community in Belgium was to small to have a reaction of any significance, but I hope you guy's don't let it come to far.
REACT BEFORE IT'S TO LATE!!!!!

Last edited by Peter H; 12-26-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:10 PM
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How much must you keep to be legal?

What is "CE-certified:?
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2013, 01:23 PM
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A product which is labeled with a CE-certificate, is conform with European safety regulations.
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