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In The Shop Shop talk, shop tools & fixtures, shop wear, anything for the shop that is not covered in another forum.

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  #21  
Old 07-29-2009, 09:53 PM
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I found this picture on the Grizzly website showing the horizontal spindle in action. Makes sense now! Also my mill looks strinkingly similar... might be the same thing with a different paint job as is often the case with imported machines.

that,s very common with offshore machines , typically there is one company that builds the machine for multipule company,s , one of my customer has their own house line of machines , the company that makes their brand also makes them for a company that,s a sponser on here .
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:22 AM
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Well I cleaned up the mill with some WD-40 on the exposed metal and Windex on the painted surfaces. I put some LPS Rust Inhibitor on all the exposed metal afterwards. It looks almost new now!

Then I went to install an R8 collet and discovered something screwy. As far as I can tell, the spindle doesn't have a key for the collet. I can tighten the drawbar all I want and the collet will just spin. I looked up into the spindle and didn't see any key. The specs definitely say R8 and the taper / bearing surfaces seem to match the R8 just right. Investigation definitely needed...
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2009, 03:54 AM
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Well I cleaned up the mill with some WD-40 on the exposed metal and Windex on the painted surfaces. I put some LPS Rust Inhibitor on all the exposed metal afterwards. It looks almost new now!

Then I went to install an R8 collet and discovered something screwy. As far as I can tell, the spindle doesn't have a key for the collet. I can tighten the drawbar all I want and the collet will just spin. I looked up into the spindle and didn't see any key. The specs definitely say R8 and the taper / bearing surfaces seem to match the R8 just right. Investigation definitely needed...
Not uncommon for the imports to fail that pin if the cutter takes to big a bite.
I hope that you can get to it W/O Taking the head apart. Usually a set-screw.
Even gone you should be able to draw the collet by pushing the collet up into the spindle and getting a friction lock started, but you can't do it with an empty collet...
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2009, 01:08 PM
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Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to take the head apart. I lowered the quill as much as a could and there's really no access in there. I talked to our machinist at work and our mill at work has the same problem with a pin that sheared off. The mill at work has a power drawbar though and it acts sortof like an impact, so the collet doesn't spin. I tried to get mine to stick by friction enough to tighten, but I couldn't get it to stay put (even with an appropriately sized endmill installed). I think I'm just going to have to take it apart. Thanks for your input entropy - always appreciated!

*EDIT* I called Grizzly and their tech support was really good. Makes me want to buy from them in the future. The gentleman that answered the phone explained how to take the spindle out (actually not very hard) and said there's a set screw for anti-rotation. He verified that they tend to shear off every once in a while, but they're easy enough to replace. I'll take it apart this weekend and report back after I (hopefully) make my first chips!
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  #25  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:40 PM
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Without actually repairing the anti-rotation pin, I was able to get the collet to lock in place. The trick was chasing the threads in the collet so the drawbar wouldn't torque it so much while tightening. After it locked into the taper, I was able to get it pretty tight. Only problem is I don't have something to stop the spindle from rotating while I tighten. I called Grizzly and aparently they make a different syle drawbar now that has a nut at the top. You hold the drawbar with one wrench and bring the nut down with the other wrench to draw the collet into the taper. They actaully offered to send me one for free; talk about great support especially considering I don't even have their mill. But I did buy a few hundred dollars in stuff from them, so I wouldn't feel too bad getting a handout. I'm thinking with the different style drawbar I might not even need the anti-rotation pin, but using two wrenches to change collets does kinda suck.

After getting the collet tight on a 1/2" end mill, I threw a chunk of aluminum in the vise and faced off a few sides. The autofeed works great and leaves a good consistent finish. The mill cut very nicely after I tightened down some of the bolts holding the head on; initially they were loose and my subsequent milling cuts were getting shallower and tapering. With things tight, the machine cut beatifully without a rattle or the hint of a groan from the motor or powerfeed. We'll see what it does when I cut steel, but for now it's working great.
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  #26  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:59 PM
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Without actually repairing the anti-rotation pin, I was able to get the collet to lock in place. The trick was chasing the threads in the collet so the drawbar wouldn't torque it so much while tightening. After it locked into the taper, I was able to get it pretty tight. Only problem is I don't have something to stop the spindle from rotating while I tighten. I called Grizzly and aparently they make a different syle drawbar now that has a nut at the top. You hold the drawbar with one wrench and bring the nut down with the other wrench to draw the collet into the taper. They actaully offered to send me one for free; talk about great support especially considering I don't even have their mill. But I did buy a few hundred dollars in stuff from them, so I wouldn't feel too bad getting a handout. I'm thinking with the different style drawbar I might not even need the anti-rotation pin, but using two wrenches to change collets does kinda suck.

After getting the collet tight on a 1/2" end mill, I threw a chunk of aluminum in the vise and faced off a few sides. The autofeed works great and leaves a good consistent finish. The mill cut very nicely after I tightened down some of the bolts holding the head on; initially they were loose and my subsequent milling cuts were getting shallower and tapering. With things tight, the machine cut beatifully without a rattle or the hint of a groan from the motor or powerfeed. We'll see what it does when I cut steel, but for now it's working great.

Unfortunately, the pins do shear off on occasion. I have not had to deal with this, yet... As for holding end mills with collets, I try to avoid that altogether as they can "walk out" if the tool grabs the work. I always use end mill holders to hold end mills. I cannot recall the last time I actually used an R8 collet to hold an end mill. I have about 30 or so end mill holders and other tooling all ready to throw in the Bp when needed. It speeds things up so much.

With an end mill holder, I imagine you will not have the spinning taking place as bad when tightening.

On another note, you really ought to fix the sheared pin. Reason being is both the spindle and the collets (tooling) are hardened. If they continue to spin of rub together, over time the spindle itself will be ruined and need to be reground internally.

As for taking it apart, you should be able to get a standard Bridgeport manual and the quill assembly should be similar. I believe the spindle nose has a screw that needs to come off along with some other parts. Should not be too involved. Just need to get in there and do it. I recently did a rebuild on my variable speed Bridgeport head. Not too difficult, just time consuming and dirty! ;-)

Grant
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2009, 05:39 AM
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with the Grizzly you spin the whole head around to put the outter suport..... just see it in the pictures on the table side of the mill, and then your horizontal shaft can go in..
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2009, 07:48 PM
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Definitely having a lot of fun with this thing now. I've been making all kinds of little gidgets and gadget with it lately, both aluminum and mild steel, and its working rather well.

The only real issues are the metric lead screws and dial counting: I HATE IT. When .160in on the dial is actually 4mm (.1575in) and you rotate the dial a few times, you can be pretty far off over a short distance. I printed out a spreadsheet with Actual vs. Dial conversions to help, but it's still really easy to make mistakes. By the time I factor in my tool offset, the metric influence and the number of dial turns, I've gone through a half dozen or more opportunities to screw up! Thankfully I am still able to meet print most of the time and the machine does cut a nice part, it's just a nightmare to keep track of.

I really need to get a readout for this thing, but in the meantime does anybody have practical types for tracking this stuff?
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:36 PM
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I really need to get a readout for this thing, but in the meantime does anybody have practical types for tracking this stuff?
LOL keeping track of a lead screw... GET A DRO
But back in the olden days I'd take a tablet and a clip.
I'd write out my "Program" it might be something like:

x 4 37
x -4 37 +1.5 75

So WTF???
1st move is:
X 4 revolutions clockwise and 37 on the dial.
Second move is 4 turns CCW past the 37 (back to the other side of zero to kill the backlash) then 1.5 turns CW plus 75 on the dial.

Ya got to understand that men were men back in the day
Some where I have a book that has the cheats for "Stepping off" inside or outside corner radius. and I have done the yellow tablet steps for compound curves... and OH just get a DRO, at-least get indicators and mag bases... Now you've brought back all those hours of terror knowing that one goof scraps a 2 million dollar part...
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
LOL keeping track of a lead screw... GET A DRO
But back in the olden days I'd take a tablet and a clip.
I'd write out my "Program" it might be something like:

x 4 37
x -4 37 +1.5 75

So WTF???
1st move is:
X 4 revolutions clockwise and 37 on the dial.
Second move is 4 turns CCW past the 37 (back to the other side of zero to kill the backlash) then 1.5 turns CW plus 75 on the dial.

Ya got to understand that men were men back in the day
Some where I have a book that has the cheats for "Stepping off" inside or outside corner radius. and I have done the yellow tablet steps for compound curves... and OH just get a DRO, at-least get indicators and mag bases... Now you've brought back all those hours of terror knowing that one goof scraps a 2 million dollar part...
No fear here... it's not MY 2 million dollar part... lol, I'll take a shot at it boss...
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  #31  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:42 AM
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No fear here... it's not MY 2 million dollar part... lol, I'll take a shot at it boss...
Ok you got it and if you Eff it up it comes out your last check!
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  #32  
Old 08-25-2009, 12:28 PM
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LOL keeping track of a lead screw... GET A DRO
But back in the olden days I'd take a tablet and a clip.
I'd write out my "Program" it might be something like:

x 4 37
That looks almost identical to what I came up with and have been using so far. The problem is it only makes sense when I'm not actually doing it!

I think my brain is just limited to doing a certain number of things at once. If all I was doing was counting a dial, I could probably do it mistake free. The problem is I'm also reading a print, writing notes to track how much material I've taken off, changing tools, checking my feed rate, and generally standing in front of the mill stupid-faced with my tongue sticking up toward my left eye and tears dripping down my face from forgetting to blink.

Basically, it sucks. I am getting a DRO as soon as I can afford it...

P.S. I have a imperial ton of respect for you old time machinist who could always figure out how to make a part without programming a computer.
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  #33  
Old 08-25-2009, 03:21 PM
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That looks almost identical to what I came up with and have been using so far. The problem is it only makes sense when I'm not actually doing it!

I think my brain is just limited to doing a certain number of things at once. If all I was doing was counting a dial, I could probably do it mistake free. The problem is I'm also reading a print, writing notes to track how much material I've taken off, changing tools, checking my feed rate, and generally standing in front of the mill stupid-faced with my tongue sticking up toward my left eye and tears dripping down my face from forgetting to blink.

Basically, it sucks. I am getting a DRO as soon as I can afford it...

P.S. I have a imperial ton of respect for you old time machinist who could always figure out how to make a part without programming a computer.
LOL I now know the problem!
Your tongue needs to be on the left rear molar!
Do that and you will find that you can "Multi-task" easily. I can for a fact tell you that everyone's brain is up to it it just takes practice. If you learn it you will be able to program your CNC (you will have one eventually) in ways that will stun the kids!!

E
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  #34  
Old 01-12-2011, 07:12 PM
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Over the weekend I was making a cut with a 2-1/4" bi-metal hole saw @ 290RPM into 1/2" thick aluminum. The cheapy arbor I had doesn't center the hole saw well and I noticed there seemed to be some movement in the table while cutting. With x, y, and z locked and the vise tight & secure to the table, I put a dial indicator on the top of vice to the head of the mill and observed +/- 0.005in movement in the Y direction while cutting (0.010 range) using the quil to manually downfeed.

At that moment, I had to put things down to attend to a crying baby.

When I get back on it tonight, where should I start looking for slop? Could this be a gib adjustment issue or would having the slides locked eliminate that possibility?
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  #35  
Old 01-13-2011, 12:46 AM
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Funny what you stumble on when you spend the evening goofing off on the Internet instead of fixing your mill

CNC converted version of this mill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhvd6rLctOI

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...hm-52_cnc.html
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:35 AM
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Clint,

FWIW, my mill does the same thing with oblong or non centered hole saws. I haven't dug into it very far, but I suspect it could use an adjustment on the gibs.

I don't know that much about the process. I would search on Practical Machinist. I would bet that Forrest Addy has shared some wisdom on the subject.

Graham
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  #37  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:22 AM
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So old post but did you get a DRO?

I want to build a diy micrometer/linear scale version for my HF lathe/mill.
The dials, lead screws, and backlash are so bad its a dye and scribe layout for all my work.
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  #38  
Old 01-13-2011, 02:06 PM
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Graham - Thanks for the pointer. Practical Machinist has all kinds of great info. I found some good threads on tramming and gib adjustment, both processes I should go through, along with lubing and general maintenance. I still don't quite understand the interaction between the saddle locks and the gibs. If they are locked, does that take up any slop that maladjusted gibs would have?

CarterKraft - I haven't got a DRO for it yet. Brian has a Chinese DRO for sale on here that might fit the bill, but so far I'm getting along fine with my chart. The parts I've been making with this machine have been pretty simple.

Wish I had more time in the day...
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  #39  
Old 01-13-2011, 02:26 PM
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Clinton, I think you are being lazy, jk

why not a couple of tube bandits with linear scales instead of rotary encoders?
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  #40  
Old 01-13-2011, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
Graham - Thanks for the pointer. Practical Machinist has all kinds of great info. I found some good threads on tramming and gib adjustment, both processes I should go through, along with lubing and general maintenance. I still don't quite understand the interaction between the saddle locks and the gibs. If they are locked, does that take up any slop that maladjusted gibs would have?
I really don't have a good answer for that one. I have not gotten into gib adjustments on any of my machines, so I'm not 100% sure of the relationship between the locks and the gibs.

The only thing I can think of is that the lock bears on one point, and if there's slop in the ways, it may allow the table/saddle to rotate about that point.

The other thing that may be going on is slop in the nut/lead screw...but I would think the table lock would take care of that.
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