'70 Nova LSX swap LY6/TH400 - Page 6

TheBandit · #**101** 11-21-2011, 12:49 PM

I started making one of a few brackets for mounting the AC compressor. I drew it up in CAD and printed it to scale, laid it on a piece of 1/4" and marked it out before cutting it with an angle grinder and cutoff wheel. I have a mill, but this takes no setup time and turned out fine.

After center punching locations through my printout, I drilled the holes and countersunk one using a 45 degree router bit. With a bit of hardware including some makeshift spacers, here it is installed.

This design has several issues. First, the countersunk screw attaching this to the engine is captured behind the outlet port of the compressor. For removal and installation, any fittings attached to the port would have to be removed to get to this screw, so freon would be lost. The other issue here is that with the compressor moved forward to run on the six rib belt, the forward port is now in line with the heater fittings on the waterpump. I'm not sure yet if I can get an adapter block and set of ac fittings/bends to get around this.

If I continue down this path, the plan is to add another bracket at the bottom attaching to the three holes in the side of the block and incorporating one or two idler pulleys.

TheBandit · #**102** 11-21-2011, 12:50 PM

Next, I decided to try my hand at bending plate around a pole to get a nice radius. For a makeshift tool, I used a piece of 1-1/2 x 1/2 steel bar that I think used to be a finger for an engine stand. It has a hole at each end. I used some bolts through those holes as spacers, then clamped it with woodworkers clamps to a 3-1/2" OD pole set into the concrete in my garage.

I used a digital angle finder to match the angle of the "strap" with the angle of the pole.

Then I inserted a piece of 3-1/2" wide 12 gauge steel and carefully bent it by hand to the desired angle. Prior to bending I made sure the piece was perpendicular to the pole using the same angle finder.

The resulting part has a nice smooth radius and will make a nice bottom corner to my frame notch. I will make one for each side.

That's it for now.

CaptainAirTime · #**103** 11-21-2011, 11:12 PM

If there's room for the lines, it would be fairly simple (with your plate bending skilz :) to build brackets that clock it counter-clockwise. Reducing hose interference, and also making the block bolt accessible. from the pictures, it looks like about 30* would allow direct access with a hex key. Of course, pictures don't always tell the whole story, or even the right one, so it may not be feasible. Something to look at, anyway.

CarterKraft · #**104** 11-23-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBandit

This design has several issues. First, the countersunk screw attaching this to the engine is captured behind the outlet port of the compressor. For removal and installation, any fittings attached to the port would have to be removed to get to this screw, so freon would be lost. The other issue here is that with the compressor moved forward to run on the six rib belt, the forward port is now in line with the heater fittings on the waterpump. I'm not sure yet if I can get an adapter block and set of ac fittings/bends to get around this.

If I continue down this path, the plan is to add another bracket at the bottom attaching to the three holes in the side of the block and incorporating one or two idler pulleys.

I noticed this in the scrap iron bin at work today and thought of your project.
Let me know if it will help you out or if you need more info on it.

TheBandit · #**105** 11-23-2011, 02:52 PM

Thanks for the ideas & suggestions. carter I appreciate you digging through your scrap and taking the pictures. Unfortunately a 90 would put the fittings right into the frame rail.

I've been running around on the net digging up ideas and found this great thread:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=4723601

The guy has the same series of compressor as me. He bought an unmachined port adapter and brazed tubes in to suit his needs:

I could do something like that, maybe routing it like this (my paint skills are improving lol):

I am still not very happy with the mounting though. I'm going to explore some other ideas when I have time.

entropy · #**106** 11-23-2011, 03:28 PM

Move it up on top where it belongs

TheBandit · #**107** 11-23-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

blah blah blah

Sorry I can't hear you

TheBandit · #**108** 12-18-2011, 02:42 AM

As I'm still figuring out the AC, I decided to start the passenger side frame notch for the alternator.

This notch is 3-1/2" deep from the front face of the crossmember and even with the top of the access hole for the LCA bolt. As you can see, part of the LCA perch is in this space. I will leave it intact and trim the new metal around it.

Below I made a paper template for boxing it back in and laid the radiused piece in for pictures to show what the notch will look like. You can see this will tie the top and bottom of the frame together and leave room around the LCA bolt for tool access.

I transfered the template over to a piece of 1/8" plate and cut it out using a die grinder. I made it sligthly oversize and then took my time carefully grinding away material to get a good edge fitup. Fit is very important for welding and I should get a very strong weld from this joint.

If you look closely at the pictures you can see I left two small teeth/tabs at the top edge of the plate. This helps to keep it in place for fit-up and before tacking to get the proper spacing for an open corner weld.

Time to do some welding!

First, I started with a practice piece with the same fit and orientation as the real weld.

I thought that turned out really good so I went ahead and tacked my piece in...

And welded it up

I was very happy with the outside corner weld along the top edge. I went with a full open fitup (no overlap of the metals) and set the welder up for a thinner metal to prevent burn through. I got penetration through to the back and just the right amount of filler for a nice outside radius. (4/50 0.030 C25 MM180)

I then turned up the heat and speed a bit for this standard T joint fillet (4.5/55). I should have turned up the heat and speed a bit on this weld, but it turned out pretty good. It seems like I have a really bad habbit of starting and ending welds away from the ends. I couldn't weld the corner here between the 45 and vertical face because there are lapped pieces of the OEM internal frame structure and I didn't trim my piece right to go between them. There is a piece behind this that I was trimming to, but after measuring again I realized the part had to move forward a little, creating the gap in the corner.

Then there is this booger weld below. I went vertical up on this and was having a very hard time holding the gun and seeing what I was doing. It looks like there's plenty of space to work in the pictures but there isn't. The weld looks cold. I was using the same settings as the previous weld above.

KILLER"B"468 · #**109** 12-19-2011, 12:51 AM

It looks to me that you could pull the pump nippels out and direct tap them for AN fittings aand use 90* or 45* fittings to route the heater lines out of your way and should clean up some space for your ac lines.

TheBandit · #**110** 12-21-2011, 12:23 PM

I could do that - not a bad idea. Thanks.

TheBandit · #**111** 01-20-2012, 12:58 PM

New plan.

This is a Denso 10S17 compressor which is what originally would have come on this engine. I did some trimming on the OEM compressor bracket which came with my engine in order to graft it around the Doug's adapter and Energy Suspension mount. The compressor is in the OEM position and would run off a rear dedicated belt.

To elaborate on the new, new, new, as of this exact moment, subject to change again and again compressor plans:
The back of the 10S17 compressor is about 1" in front of the frame stand using the Doug's adapters at 1/2" setback. If you look at the frame stand, the top forward bolt would interfere with the compressor, so I will need to trim back the frame stand as well as the subframe. For this I think I will drill a new hole in the original stand somewhere between the current two, then use it as the new forwad mounting hole.

The bottom of the 10S17 compressor housing at the lower mounting bosses is actually in almost exactly the same place as the Sanden TRSA12 compressor I was attempting to use before, however I now have the option of cutting the rear lower mounting boss off, which would gain clearance for the lower control arm perch in the subframe. This likely will be needed considering how far back this compressor sits. The result is 3-point mounting instead of 4 for the compressor, but I think this will be okay.

Port location on the 10S17 isn't as good as the TRSA12 compressor. The ports are still at 45 degrees, but they are much lower on the compressor and further out. They will sit just barely to the inside of where the upper control arm cross shaft will be. The discharge port is the worst since it's lowest and furthest out on the compressor. To handle this, I plan to use Docs Blocks PN AA2210 which routes tubing tightly against the compressor at 90 degrees so it runs forward toward the front of the compressor. Here is an image:

Depending on how much room I have with the UCA cross shaft, I may have the option on the suction port to go straight out from the compressor, but if that doesn't work I can use a similar fitting to the one above (AA2209) to route that tube forward also.

Things will be very tight, especially for getting the compressor in and out. I may have to remove the upper control arm when installing it. Also because of the proximity of the motor mount, frame, and compressor bracket, I will need to have the bracket (but not the compressor) installed when I drop in the engine because there will be no room for a wrench at the lower rearmost bolt once installed.

The nice thing about all this is that even though it will be PITA to R&R, it's not something I'll be doing often and for the price of my time and frustration, I will have a cleaner engine bay and some stories to tell about all the combos I tried.

Also a few other notes on the TRSA12 compressor I was going to use before:
I have since looked at the TRSA12 and found that I could use a neutral position, mount upside-down adapter like the Autokraft (or Ak copies I made) with the OEM TRSA12 bracket trimmed appropriately. With the AK mounts I believe it could work with appropriate frame notching. Both the TRSA12 and the 10S17 tensioner mounts are pretty low and I may need to shim down my sway bar to get clearance in that area.

I abandoned the TRSA12 because with the 1/2" setback, right-side-up Dougs adapters I could not use it in the OEM position. After swapping pulleys so I could move the compressor forward, I mocked things up and was unhappy with the resulting port location and the need to build a custom bracket with idler pulleys to get the belt routing to work. I felt this was too many compromises and I wanted to explore other OEM compressors, after which point I found the answer (hopefully!) right under my nose with the 10S17 that original would have come on this engine.

That's all the so-called logic my brain can offer at the moment.

As for dropping it in for a test fit any time soon, fat chance! I am painting the inside of our house for my wife's birthday - just one of the many reasons progress is soooooo slow. But I gotta tell you I've really enjoyed thinking through all the stuff above. I really appreciate all the OFN's advice on the fabrication side of things.

entropy · #**112** 01-20-2012, 01:41 PM

You make me appreciate living on the high desert where I can just do an AC DELETE whenever possible!

TheBandit · #**113** 01-20-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

You make me appreciate living on the high desert where I can just do an AC DELETE whenever possible!

I've had this car for nearly 15 years with a few stints as my daily driver and I've NEVER had the AC working. Living on the southern California coastline, AC has always been a "nice to have" / optional feature. I want it now for the untangeable reasons like it originally had it, it will be ever so slightly more comfortable to take on trips, and I really like all this figuring stuff that out I'm doing - it's made the project interesting. Logic has nothing to do with what I do. I think I've mentioned that before.

entropy · #**114** 01-20-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBandit

Logic has nothing to do with what I do. I think I've mentioned that before.

I hear that

TheBandit · #**115** 01-25-2012, 01:55 AM

Not the easiest fit-up or welding, but I think this turned out okay, if not acceptable. I had one area at the bottom right of the radius where there was some gap (about half a material thickness), so I did a series of smaller welds at higher wire speed to prevent burning through. Getting this fitted was tough - lots of surfaces needed to be matched. I went vertical down on everything this time - much easier to get a nice looking weld.

I'm very happy to have that buttoned up. Now I've got a bunch of layout work to do on the other side.

What says the OFN? Is this thing going to hold up or fold up?

CaptainAirTime · #**116** 01-26-2012, 01:03 AM

The answer to that is always 'who's driving?'

TheBandit · #**117** 01-26-2012, 12:08 PM

Me and I want to drive like this, but with a lot less smoke and body roll:

entropy · #**118** 01-26-2012, 02:45 PM

What, you want to keep knocking cones over before you get to them?

TheBandit · #**119** 01-26-2012, 02:52 PM

LOL - Those are on their side to guide you to the correct side of the course.

The one thing I don't like about stiffening up the suspension is I think the body roll makes for some cool photos haha. Reminds me of the old muscle car chase scenes you used to see in movies. You can tell the car is fully getting it, whereas a properly setup car pulling more Gs looks tame in a photograph.

TheBandit · #**120** 03-01-2012, 07:35 PM

Update: time to work on the passenger side. First I drilled a new mounting hole between the original two in the frame stand so I could move the bolt back. Ignore the cut lines drawn up on the frame - they are old lines from months ago when I was planning on lifted, forward adapters and a different compressor.

Here is the frame stand bolted to the motor mount. It doesn't quite fit because the back of the compressor hits near the top forward mounting bolt. It will need to trimmed back a little which will make the forward mounting hole unusable.

After a lot of measurements I marked up the frame for cutting. It is the same dimensions as the driver's side, except the finished depth is 4" from the front of the crossmember instead of 3.5" (I cut 4-1/8" back for material thickness allowance). If I were not using setback mounts, I could have gotten away with a 3.5" depth on this side and no modifications to the frame stand. This 4" depth is scaring the crap out of me. It's a huge cut. I really hope it holds up.

I was hoping to do better welding this round, but it didn't turn out the way I'd hoped. Fitment was pretty good, but I still burned through in a couple places and had to do more start-stops than I wanted to prevent that from happening. I still have a lot to learn about and need practice. Here are some pics:

From all my measurements it looks like I will not be able to use the lower rear mounting hole on the AC compressor. It appears it will interfere with the LCA perch in this mounting position. But I'm going to wait until the engine is back in before I cut it off, just in case I'm wrong.