Roll bender build. Update pics post 28

[rdn2blazer]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Glad to hear you got moved. I know how it is when you have tons (literily) of stuff to move. I dread the day I have to move again.

Once everything is moved, and you recouperate, you can work at organizing at your own pace. Of course invariably there will be something that you need to do, so you need to set something up quick to get the job done.

Have you given your former landlord the official yet?

Actually I have just been nice as peaches and cream. I finally got the gas co. out to check the heater again and got a second copy of the Red tag from the gas company that I can burn him with. We still need to do the walk through of the house. He MUST by law give me a written itemized list in three weeks on what we agree in writing as me being responsible for which he can take off the security deposit and what is "normal" wear & tear. Going to call him today to find out whan we are doing the walk thru. They tried to have me pay a late fee for rent last month. I didn't pay crap or for the 7 days into this month it took us to move. I will probably file a small claims case for back rent for the heater issue just to be a PITA to him AND I'm not going to call the health investigator and let him know the heater was red tagged AGAIN. Paper trail on my side will help me in the long run.

[wamcdonald]

Any updates on your bender?

[calipup72]

still moving ? just read the whole tread alot of ups and downs but sounds like the ups are alot better. any up dates on the roll bender?

[rdn2blazer]

Originally Posted by wamcdonald

Any updates on your bender?

Originally Posted by calipup72

still moving ? just read the whole tread alot of ups and downs but sounds like the ups are alot better. any up dates on the roll bender?

Wow, suprised to see this brought back from the dead. Last year we bought a house, moved in on the 4th of July. Got away from that rental nightmare I lived in for almost 15 years. Unfortunately, the one thing I have not had a chance to do is touch my garage and get it organized since moving in almost a year ago. Hence the reason I have not been on here in some time. I pop in every once in a while but life has become sooo busy it's not even funny.

I don't even has a compressor hooked up yet. Have not fabbed one single thing on my project rig, or fabbed anything since moving, including my roll bender project. It is getting depressing to say the least. I'm working lots of OT weekends. During the week it's taking care of my elderly mom. Running to doc appointments, running to get meds, groceries.

There's been some minor house problems since moving too I've had to deal with. I'm in the process of pouring 900sq feet of concrete in my back yard. DID NOT buy a house to do yard work every single weekend AFTER working OT too. A house just seems to turn into a project. Anyone owning a home knows how that just seems to happen. It's insane, but it is what it is. If, god willing tis thing ever earns enough equity I will build a huge shop. I can build a shop 48' X 37' X 35' high if I wanted to, already checked with the city planners dept. I won't go that big cause I would have almost no yard for my son to play in though.

I miss getting out in the garage and fabbing, welding, wrenching on whatever. It will get there at some point. I took a huge hit on vacation time ever since moving in and had to play catch up all year. I was 32 negitive PTO hours because of the way the move took place and it's been hell digging my way out ever since. Missing ANY time just set me back farther and farther. I would get to almost zero hours then I would have something to HAVE to take time off for, which would put me back in the hole. I have had some health issues myself but nothing really major. I did have my Gall bladder removed last year.

Right now, thankfully, I'm almost at a weeks PTO time acrued. Still can't afford to take the time I will need to get my garage to a point to being a "funtioning shop" again, but I'm trying like hell not to miss ANY time so I can take a couple weeks off to do just that.

So thanks for checking up on my build. It is a project I am proud of, and most certainly will get back to time permitting.

[rdn2blazer]

I forgot to mention we added a new member to our family, got a 1 1/2 yr old Boxer who's been an awesome dog since day one. He's sooo fun, loving and playful and we shower him with love daily. My boy loves his new buddy. His name was Kobe, after Kobe Bryant of course, I'm not a basketball or Kobe fan so I named him Cody. Close enough not to confuse the guy.

[Burt]

Hello, I have been following all of your isues with moving and feel very glad that you got them resolved. I have a story about when I bought some property to build a shop on. I will try to condense this very long story. When I purchased the 6 acres there was no road to it but there was a road easement. I was the back piece of property behind two other 5 acre tracts. The easement ran along the east edge of both pieces of property. The front piece of property had blacktop frontage. The center 5 acres had the same easement as I had. This is where the majority of the problems came from. It was on the deed for the center 5 acres that the owners had to split the cost of construction with the back 6 acre owner (me). They did not want to spend the money because they were using an old farm road that went to the old barn that was on their property. This property used to be an old farm that was subdivided. They wanted me to use the same road. I had no problem doing this as long as it was a legal easement. The owner of the adjacent property would not agree to this. Lawsuit on! This is where it really drags out, for three years. I will skip all the details about court, lawyers, cost and everything else. Lets just say that the "gentleman" that decided not to pay what the deed said he was legally responsible for lost his house and doesn't live there anymore. When all of this started years ago I wished more than once that I had never purchased that property. Today, looking back, it's the best decision I ever made. I have great neighbors now and a great shop with plenty of room to build my house. Yes there is a lot of grass to mow but it can be relaxing at times.
Bill

[rdn2blazer]

Well I can't change the first post to update this thread, so I'll just add to it.

UPDATE: 1/5/12

It's been a LOOOOONG time coming. So one of the things I've really wanted to get back into working on once my health was better is my tube rolling machine build. Most here don't know but I have been fighting cancer for the last 7 months. Had biopsy surgery, had lung surgery where they removed 1/3 of my right lung, and had brain surgery. Went through chemo and am now back to work 6 months to the day that I passed out in the shower when all this came to a head.

Enough about that, anyways, I finally got a power source for cheap. It's a Harbor Freight pipe threading power tool. The same unit SWAG OFF ROAD recommends, and makes a conversion kit for the Harbor Freight tube roller for it to mount to. With discounts I got about 35% off. Paid $98+ tax instead of 150+ tax. I picked up a couple of sprockets & Heavy Duty chain for a good deal, and now just about have what I need to run this thing. I still need to machine the side plates on the saddle for the pressure roller to 1.500.

Going to machine an adapter that is similar to the thread cutting cage that holds the four threading blades. OG will have the same Octagonal shape so it fits into the power drive unit just like the threading cage does. The ID will be a hex shape to fit one of the shafts to drive the rollers. That shaft will have a 1 1/4 hex machined on to one end of the shaft and will be driven by the adapted and power drive unit. It will also have a 3/8 keyway internal too so I can set screw it to the keyway.

I can then roll tube. Couple other things I want to do, One is to put a remote switch in the cord of the power drive unit so I don't have to stand at the power drive unit and monitor it. Only thing I'll have to do at the power unit is flick it into the reverse direction to continue rolling.

[rdn2blazer]

Another upgrade I may do it convert it to hydraulic power. I bought a used small 5 ton bottle jack for $10 bucks and can addapt it to my bender and replace the ball screw to give the down force for rolling. This will require some new parts to be machined and made but will make for a much easier way to give the pressure required by just a pump of the handle.

And, by converting it to hydro I can gain more capacity out of the rolling machine because I can get more up stroke out of the jack based on how I make the conversion side plates. Right now I'm only using about 1/2 the up stroke the Aluminum side plates allow. You can see in the fourth pic above I'm at max upward stroke, but the Aluminum side plates are slotted much more then that.

The threading cage pictured is what I'm going to copy machine but slightly different and with a HEX ID to key onto the hex shaft to drive the unit.

[TheBandit]

Awesome to see this thread "rolling" again. Seems like you're on the home stretch. Stay healthy and get 'er done!

[Captainfab]

What size chain are you using Rob? It looks like #60?

[rdn2blazer]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

What size chain are you using Rob? It looks like #60?

Actually it's Heavy Duty #50. I wanted to run a double strand but sprocket cost and chain cost goes WAY up. I could not find a double strand sprocket with a finished bore. they all had to be machined. Was quoted $186.xx for 2 bored to size double strand sprockets. These I got were only $36 each, and the chain was WAY cheaper. If it breaks I'll go bigger. I double it will. It's not like it's a HUGE load for rolling tube.

I just solved a problem I was having with trying to come up with an idea of how to drive the center rollers between the 1" Aluminum plates. I have to now have some parts Wire EDM machined and have to machine my inboard dies some what to accept the fingered drive collars I have to have made. It will work off the keyway in the shaft. Now with wanting to add a Hydro jack too I have a bunch of parts to make or have made. I don't know EDM machining so I'll have a buddy do it that is an awesome EDM guy. Need to get material first before I hit him up with this job for me.

[Captainfab]

Wow, yeah I would have gone with the cheaper sprockets too.

I'm interested to see what you have come up with to drive the rollers.

[rdn2blazer]

Taking the saddle plates to my bud to have them machined for the 1.5 shaft. I would do it myself but no longer have access to a mill. Now I have to hurry up and get material for the EDM work I need to have done. At least I still have connections to machines. Just someone else has to do the work. I HATE relying on ohter people to do my machining stuff. My machining buddies are all excelent machinists though so nothing to worry about. I NEED a mill & lathe BAD. Wish I had never sold my little Logan I had. It was small but I did alot with it.

[rdn2blazer]

UPDATE

I picked up the custom shaft colars I designed and had waterjet cut out. Very happy with how well they came out. They aren't perfect as they just barley don't fit the shaft. There just a touch on the tight side which is fine, would rather have them too tight so I can diamond file to fit, vs be too loose and sloppy. The ID is 1.500 about 75/80% of the diameter, then in a small area it drops undersized a bit. Not enough to be concerned with. Like I said I'll just file fit them and they well be perfect.

I'll now need to chamfer for one side for 82' deg. flathead allen socket cap screws. I need to buy those screws too still. Will pick up some stainless steel screws. As you can see in the picture with the part in the roller, I'll chuck the roller in the lathe, counter bore to fit the OD of the colar in both ends, then put it in a mill and indicate the counter bore, then mill the slots for the four drive fingers. I'll have to make sure the fingers are times so the keyway on both colars are exactly in line with one another. Other wise it wont fit the shaft.

This I think is a very good design and will drive the rollers inboard the side plates very well. Can not wait to get this finished up and roll some tubing!!! First tube rolling project will be a custom gate for my driveway with a nice arc'ed top tube and mabe some arc'ed tube for the vertical bars too. Not sure if I'll make square tube dies and use square tube or round. Thinking of using square tube but roll it corner to corner for a different kind of diamond shape cool look. I'll have to machine custom 45' deg. "V" dies for that setup. What do you think? Here is a pic of the gate I want to replace. It will have stained wood inlay in it too. Probably dark Cherry wood, something like that. Gloss black or flat black powder coated frame with Cherry wood inlay.

[PDANKracing]

Very nice build so far, can't wait to see the finished product. I like the idea of having two die sets. If the outer dies have too much deflection, maybe another side plate will help. I'm thinking the main idea behind the outer dies, is reducing change over time. Obviuosly, having another side plate will hamper that, but if you used alignment pins and a few studs, it may not cause too much extra work.

Looking at titanfab's roller on page 4?, there's a simple way to make it variable speed. I rebuild old bag machines and they used a variable pulley on the motor to adjust the speed. The driven pulley is fixed, and the motor is on a baseplate that slides in and out. You adjust the speed by turning a threaded rod that is fixed in position.






If you look closely, the motor is parallel to the transmission, but the linear motion is angled 5 to 10 deg's to the driven pulley. I'm guessing this is to reduce belt wear caused by changing the variable pulley centerline. The variable pulleys can be found on Mcmaster by searching Constant Tension Finished-Bore V-Belt Pulleys.

[rdn2blazer]

The idea of a duel capable rolling machine came about basically by accident really. It just kind of worked out that way, which of course I REALLY love it that it worked out like that. I did not plan it like that, thats for sure. But once I realized it would work and was IMO a great idea I ran with it. It happened because the 1.500 Stainless material I'm using for the shafts, I left really long when I cut them just incase, since I didn't have a drive setup yet and though it best to leave them long so I could always cut them down at a later date. Well, I left enough there where I though, "Hay, I wonder if I could make it a duel roller machine?" After giving it some though I said to myself, Hell yeah it can work! and away I went with that idea.

Yes the outer dies will be more for smaller tube and quick change setups. If I want/need to roll larger diameter or thicker wall tube I'll more then likely use the inboard rollers. Also, If I want to roll two tubes at once I'll use both inboard and outboard roller setups. I'm also going to be machining some rollers for either outboard or inboard that will have double grooves of either matching grooves for rolling two of the same kind of material at once or even different size/type grooving for different sized tubes, just to minimize roller die changing.

My inboard rollers are 5" wide so I can groove a set of rollers with say a 1 1/2" round and a 1" round groove and have plenty of meat between the grooves and ends of the rollers. For instance, a 5" wide roller with a 1 1/2" & 1" radius groove machined into will still have a land width of .833 between the two grooves and from the ends of the roller to both grooves if I divide the remaining land after machining up equally. Hell, for that matter, if I wanted to make a roller with three grooves in it I could do that too.

A 1" wide groove for square, a 45' deg groove for rolling 1" sq. tube on the corners, and 1" round tube too. That would fit on a 5" roller easily with a little less then 1/2" of land between each groove. No point in having one roller for each type of material. I'll just groove roller sets with other material in mind and try and maximize my die capability.

As far as variable speed, that would be awesome to be able to have that option. I love options and this tube roller is, or will be as versatile, hell MORE versatile as any machine on the market. I AM claiming this is the worlds FIRST duel tube capable rolling machine there is period. And it was by accident, ya just gotta love that. That variable speed setup is like your typical drill dress setup. I wish I still had the Power Matic gang drill heads I scrapped out from my gang drill table. They all had that setup. I could have made it work some how. For now, the HF threader will work. Making improovements and upgrades are always on my mind on anything I build or fab up. Thanks for you input and idea, I just may use it.

[rdn2blazer]

A little update on this machine. I aquired a cnc mill last year and have been working on this trying to get the production model in the works and machined up. I've posted in some threads randomly posting about my cancer fight but never made a thread about it here. I have cancer and am fighting a new battle. Just days ago I found out I have another brain tumor.

This time it's at the back of my brain, not the same location as last time. This is not good news, but it's still treatable with more radiation. I've survived brain surgery and the loss if 1/3 of my right lung and almost died from the brain tumor as I passed out from massive swelling in 2012. The story is really long, don't want to go into all of it in this thread. Don't know if I'll post about everything.

It's just too much work to do now for me. Going to fight till my last breath if it comes to it. I have a lot to live for, my family is #1 of course. I want to make my little shop sucessfull as well, for the my family's future before I'm gone. It's been hell. I have massive scars from the surgeries. From all my 6 major surgeries I've had in my life not counting the small ones I have 5 feet in scar length on my torso and head alone. I'm tired of being cut open.

But I may have to go through another brain surgery later one to clean out the Necrosis caused by the one and only Radiation dose I had to have last time. To NOT lose my house, I HAD to go back to work in just 6 months from the day I passed out. 5 1/2 months from the day of 7 1/2 hours of brain surgery, just 3 months after the 3 1/2 hour biopsy, and the 7 hour lung surgery when they cut 1/3 of my lung off, and just two weeks after finishing up the last of four very heavy dossage 8 hour sessions of drugs and chemo poison infusion into me.

Since May 5th 2012 it's been hell. I got past everything, walked if off big time. ALL seemed good, then the Necrosis thing started causing problems. Now this new tumor. Now I'm on disability, home trying to eat every house to stay alive. My woman if just taking off as much time as she's can to just stay home and feed me every hour. Trying to gain weight to fight this. I'm eating to stay alive at this point.

Anyways, thats where this is at. Buddy is helping me continue programming parts for me. I hope to have at least one full complete ready to ship and hopefully sell before things get much worse someday soon. My woman just wants me to get healthy. It's hard trying to do both. She gets upset and just wants me to rest.

Trying to make something I can teach my son and hand off to him hopefully someday. I've been a machinist for about 22 year now. Very proud of the trade and want my son to learn all he can from me before I'm gone too. I'm 46. Cancer got me at 44. I humbly ask for any and all prayers you are willing to send my way. Thank you.

Rob

[R.DesJardin]

Originally Posted by rdn2blazer

............... I humbly ask for any and all prayers you are willing to send my way. Thank you.

Rob

You got it Rob. Will keep you in thoughts and prayers.

[350 Vortec]

You most certainly have all my prayers and energy,life certainly is not fair sometimes...having the strain of possibly loosing your home on top of all that is just crazy!!!can only wish you the very best and keep fighting,positive attitude can be as good a treatment as any... wishing you all the very best from here

[FrogDog]

Holly f**k bro.. my heart just slipped to my gut reading that....

I can't imagine what you've gone and going through but picture you in my mind...I defiantly wish you all the best ...

Take care Bro.
FrogDog ...