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  #1  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:07 AM
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jackalope jackalope is offline
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Home made die for JD2 and sneak peek of roll bender

Here are a few pics (I hope they show up) of a die I made for my JD2 bender. It is for 1.25" with a 4" CLR.
The pic is of .120" wall DOM.
Worked good.

Last pics are of my roll bender in the works. Just shows me boring out the space for the bearings. The bearings have a 50mm bore!! The boring head is a sweet little tool. Chandler-Duplex 5" head. Super smooth...Super precise!
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:12 AM
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looks great man
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:38 AM
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BAILEIGH INC BAILEIGH INC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
Here are a few pics (I hope they show up) of a die I made for my JD2 bender. It is for 1.25" with a 4" CLR.
The pic is of .120" wall DOM.
Worked good.

Last pics are of my roll bender in the works. Just shows me boring out the space for the bearings. The bearings have a 50mm bore!! The boring head is a sweet little tool. Chandler-Duplex 5" head. Super smooth...Super precise!
Nice! A 50mm shaft roll bender will give you some serious capacity. Keep us posted, good job.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:49 AM
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JaysinSpaceman JaysinSpaceman is offline
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Nice job on the die. That roll bender is going to be worth watching the construction of, looks like one beefy design!

Keep up the good work.
Jaysin
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2009, 12:12 PM
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jackalope jackalope is offline
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Thanks!
When I first sat down at the drawing board (literally), I figured if it was overbuilt, then I would not need to worry much.

The design will include the following:

1" thick front and rear plates

50mm bearing bore with 110mm OD and ~40mm wide (measurement in mm because I ordered these through a Chinese company. Talk about a language barrier!!!)

The bearing retainer plates will be 1/2" machined to spec.

Center T-slot will be a sandwich plate that retains the adjustable center bearing. 3/4" plate

5hp 3ph baldor motor with e-brake and run through Boston Gear reducer.

Downpressure for center roller will be via electric/hydraulic cylinder. No hand cranking for me! ;-)

This is one of those projects that will take me time as I peck away at it in my spare time. I will say that there is NO way to do this cheap. Materials are not cheap and I will have plenty of $$ in this when all is said and done.
My first set of dies took me a long time to manully machine. They are for 1.25"
I'll post pics as this thing makes it's way together.

Grant
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2009, 12:22 PM
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Awesome work Grant! I'm really looking forward to seeing this evolve. Looks like a great project so far. Nice work on the die too. Any pictures of it in process or maybe an explanation of how you made it?

Did you make the boring head on your mill? That is a beefy looking unit.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:34 PM
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I actually do have some pics of dies being made, but not the one in this thread. I thought about it, but then forgot to bring the camera. All of these pics are with my crappy dingleberry phone. Not clear, but that is as good as it gets! ;-)

The following are pics of a die for my roll bender being made.

The tool was made out of scrap and parts I had laying around. Works very well, but when I start making larger capacity die sets, I will use my newly acquired Holdridge 12-D radius turning tool!!!! This attachment is flippin' huge. I never seen a Holdridge tool larger than 8-D.
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  #8  
Old 07-31-2009, 02:11 PM
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Grant, is the leading edge of the die creasing your tube? If it is, you strap is too short!!! Sure looks close from the pic.
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  #9  
Old 07-31-2009, 02:20 PM
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You are quite astute my friend! I had to make a new one because of that! It also affect the pinning of the strap because it was so close to the bender's arm.

Can't get nothing past someone that deals with this daily eh?!?!? ;-)

Great eye!
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:38 PM
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Very nice work!
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post

Did you make the boring head on your mill? That is a beefy looking unit.
Clint,
That is no home-made jobber. It is a big ole Chandler-Duplex boring head. It used to be affixed to a NMTB 50 taper shank. I made an R8 adapter for my little Bridgeport. What is nice about the broing head, is that it has the automatic facing option. The head was more than $1,500 new! :-O
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Old 07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
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That thing sure brings the BEEF! I think on my little mill I'd have to crank the table down to the floor and even then I might not have the room for it. Turn on the spindle and the inertia from the boring head would have the whole machine spinning around it!

Awesome tooling Grant and really nice machine work.
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  #13  
Old 07-31-2009, 05:41 PM
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You wanna talk about inertia......I was removing the boring head between holes so I could indicate them with a co-ax indicator. Well, I switched the motor back into high speed so I could "free wheel" the co-ax. I dial it in, take the co-ax out, boring head in, then turn on!!!!!
H OOOOOO LLLLLLLLL YYYYYYY $hit. That SOB made my Bridgeport rock like you wouldn't believe! I think I reacted so fast that it barely made 5 rotations. Still, scared the snot outta me.

Wouldn't ya know, it happened when I started to rush things! ;-) Always a lesson to be learned.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2010, 01:16 PM
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jackalope jackalope is offline
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Very minor follow up with this ever-so-slow project. This weekend I machined the 1/2" bearing retainer plates. 1/2" Cold Rolled. Needed 8 of these in total. 2 for each bearing. The center bearing and roller assembly will be machined next. I have some other PAYING projects lined up so they will come first.
Hope the crappy pics turn out!
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2010, 06:00 PM
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jackalope jackalope is offline
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For reference, the bearing blocks are 5" x 5" .

The main body of the bearing is supported by the 1" plate of the machine body itself.

My "new" Leland Gifford drill press with the 36" table will come in handy for drilling the 1" plate for assembly.....
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:35 PM
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I was jealous when I saw the initial pictures of you tooling and work -but a 36" drill press table! I thought the 21 inch table on my old school "camel back" drill was huge I am humbled....
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
You wanna talk about inertia......I was removing the boring head between holes so I could indicate them with a co-ax indicator. Well, I switched the motor back into high speed so I could "free wheel" the co-ax. I dial it in, take the co-ax out, boring head in, then turn on!!!!!
H OOOOOO LLLLLLLLL YYYYYYY $hit. That SOB made my Bridgeport rock like you wouldn't believe! I think I reacted so fast that it barely made 5 rotations. Still, scared the snot outta me.

Wouldn't ya know, it happened when I started to rush things! ;-) Always a lesson to be learned.


WOW!!! Thats scary, been there done that too . Every machinist has if you been in it long enough. As you said rushing is the cause of that most of the time. Awesome bender die and roller build. Looking forward to seeing yours come together. Mine is getting close to done. Got some more ordered parts in needing machining. Unfortunately I can't post while being machined pics. Doing mine all at work and NO camera's allowed.

One thing I'll suggest, Holly tool overhang on the lathe op bat man! That boring bar is sticking out a country mile. Choke it up, more rigid and less likely to get chatter lol I know you know that, just bustin you balls.

I would like to here more about your motor and gear reducer. I have not bought my motor setup yet. Wanted to get my tube roller completly done and ready for sprockets then get those items as a kind of an assembly so it all is matches properly for motor shaft and sprocket ID size and sprocker for the drive roller shafts. How did you determine HP necessary. I assume your using chain & sprockets correct?

Last edited by rdn2blazer; 03-10-2010 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:08 AM
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Very Nice


(PS Grant I haven't forgotten about the digi gauge, just whey too busy to get to it at the mo.)
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
Downpressure for center roller will be via electric/hydraulic cylinder. No hand cranking for me! ;-)

This is one of those projects that will take me time as I peck away at it in my spare time. I will say that there is NO way to do this cheap. Materials are not cheap and I will have plenty of $$ in this when all is said and done.
My first set of dies took me a long time to manully machine. They are for 1.25"
I'll post pics as this thing makes it's way together.

Grant

I thought of having a hydro setup aswell, but after thinking about it more I kinda shyed away from it mainly due to what I feel is not being able to make those very fine adjustments you may need to make when it comes to rooling a second tube your trying to match the firsts tube arc too. I'm using precision 1 1/2-5 Acme threaded rod as my drive for the pressure roller. There is a known mechanical factor thats measurable and repeatable for sure. At 5 thread pitch I get .200 per full turn out of it of course so if I need only say .025 of turn to be exactly where I was with the first tube I can figure out how much radial turn I need to be there, or just dial to those repeat points on the scales.

I'm mounting a scale on the face plate with a pointer for repeatablity which you might consider aswell if you have not already. Also, I'm mounting a radial scale on top of my top spreader plate with a adjustable height pointer so it reads a spicific amount radially as I thread the pressure jack screw down. I'll have two scales as refference to roll by to hopefully an exact point to match arcs with. make sence? You will have a pretty good amount of fine movement too but not necessarly calculatable I don't believe. Having a pressure gauge will help repeatability for sure but not precision like a known mechanical device would be. Just my .02 cents. Don't know if that gives you food for thought.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:18 AM
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jackalope jackalope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdn2blazer View Post
I thought of having a hydro setup aswell, but after thinking about it more I kinda shyed away from it mainly due to what I feel is not being able to make those very fine adjustments you may need to make when it comes to rooling a second tube your trying to match the firsts tube arc too. I'm using precision 1 1/2-5 Acme threaded rod as my drive for the pressure roller. There is a known mechanical factor thats measurable and repeatable for sure. At 5 thread pitch I get .200 per full turn out of it of course so if I need only say .025 of turn to be exactly where I was with the first tube I can figure out how much radial turn I need to be there, or just dial to those repeat points on the scales.

I'm mounting a scale on the face plate with a pointer for repeatablity which you might consider aswell if you have not already. Also, I'm mounting a radial scale on top of my top spreader plate with a adjustable height pointer so it reads a spicific amount radially as I thread the pressure jack screw down. I'll have two scales as refference to roll by to hopefully an exact point to match arcs with. make sence? You will have a pretty good amount of fine movement too but not necessarly calculatable I don't believe. Having a pressure gauge will help repeatability for sure but not precision like a known mechanical device would be. Just my .02 cents. Don't know if that gives you food for thought.
In re: boring bar ;-) I leave that one exactly the way it is because I use it for a specific part I make a lot of. My feed rade it slow enough I get no chatter at all. Great observation though!

You made mention of the acme screw. I have been contemplating using this set up but for a different reason. I drew something up the other weekend using 2 screws. one by the front plate and one by the rear plate. They would be tied together via chain and sprocket essentially. This would allow equal and constant pressure on the downpressure cycle.

My drawback is that it would be bulky and not sure I need that degree of overengineering.... I can certainly see why YOU are wanting accuracy but I cannot see a need for THAT much accuracy for a roll bening application. Absolutely a plus no doubt. Mine will have the scale on the face which I should be able to get plenty of accuracy out of it. I would much rather use 2 hydraulic cylinders in place of the acme screws but getting them synchronized may be a problem (have not done my homework in this area YET).

I am anxious to see yours coming along too. Are you sure you can't sneak a camera phone in there???? ;-)

Not worth losing your job, but it would be cool to have some documentary footage of the build.

Thanks all for the ideas. Never can have too many.
Grant
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